Asking politicians 'can a woman have a penis'?

[EdgeOfACoin]

I've raised this on other threads.

Obviously, politicians all week have been stumbling over whether 'Woman: adult human female' is offensive, and debating whether only women have cervixes (cervices?)

What I want to see now are politicians challenged on whether a woman can have a penis. I want to see whether a senior politician is prepared to stand up and argue that a penis may be viewed as a female sex organ. I want to see this put to politicians on Andrew Marr etc.

Any ideas how we can make this happen?

I get that too @ColouringPencils but I personally believe we should be campaigning to ensure that the only term used is women, nothing else is necessary.

I signed up to bumble last night and noticed that people can call themselves '*2 spirit'. If people insist on calling themselves that I insist on being called a woman and not 'othered' by including anything else with that.

@FreeBritnee

I prefer the term ‘assigned female at birth’. I wrote recently that Ive seen this recently on lots of forms abd it doesn’t offend me at all.

But sex isn't assigned in the vast, vast majority of cases. It's determined at connection and observed at birth

@FreeBritnee

I prefer the term ‘assigned female at birth’. I wrote recently that Ive seen this recently on lots of forms abd it doesn’t offend me at all.

Sex isn't 'assigned' on some arbitrary basis, it is observed. I am happier with the wording 'registered female at birth', since it is at least factually correct.

The term 'assigned' came from the days when babies with indeterminate sex were indeed 'assigned' male or female. In other words, it has been appropriated by some members of the trans community for their own ends.

The only time 'assigned at birth' is correct is historically in the case of a person with a Disorder of Sexual Development (DSD), often referred to as Intersex. With the advent of karotyping, sex can be identified through testing.

Sex is observed at birth (it's a boy! It's a girl!) and often much earlier whilst in utero.

Stonewall et al seem to be pushing for 'assigned at birth' terminology for ideological reasons of their own.

So how about we let them have ‘woman’ and keep female?
So women can have penises but females can’t
Men can have cervixes but males can’t.

I’d be happy with that just about?

@Profilejacket

So how about we let them have ‘woman’ and keep female? So women can have penises but females can’t Men can have cervixes but males can’t.

I’d be happy with that just about?

Nope, they want 'female' too. Surrendering 'woman' is not enough.

Furthermore, girls, does and mares are all females. They are not all women.

@Waitwhat23 thank you for posting that reference

Isn't 'assigned at birth' a phrase used for people with DSD?

If we want women to use screening services, we need to be clear who is targeted. Long sentences saying everything but women is unclear and may make women who need a test think it's not relevant to them.

If a woman has a medical history that makes screening unnecessary or a gender identity, they know - its silly to pretend that they don't. The purpose of the literature isnt to make political statements it's to make everyone aware that the service is available who should use the service and why.

Do they want XX chromosomes too?

@ColouringPencils

I recently went for a smear and the language in the booklet said something like 'women and people with a cervix should have a smear test'. Does anyone think this language is unacceptable? To me it seemed fine.

I don't understand why it's triggering for a trans man to be referred to as a woman in relation to healthcare, but being reduced to their female biology is completely fine?

I think it's a much better question than the cervix one.
For a start I bet a significant percentage of people don't even know what a cervix is.
Everyone knows what a penis is and its cultural and biological connection to men.

A trans man was interviewed by Evan Davis on PM on R4 yesterday. Trans man was pregnant with second child. I would have liked Evan to ask what the childs birth certificate will say.

I found the whole line of this type of questioning on the basic meaning of words not that useful as it dorsnt really show the impact of changing the meaning. The people on this bkard have thpught long and hard about it and can make leaps of understanding.
I think i prefer questions about the impact directly.

So i would rather 'should all men be invited to a cervical screening test because some trans men have a cervix or do you think trans men should have a medical record that reflects they have a cervix to ensure they recieve a screening letter' or '"do you think its appropriate to have a body with a penis that has been used as a weapon against bodies with cervixes housed in the same cell'

Given the abuse that Hibo Wedere and Jana Cornel (Female Genital Mutilation survivors and campaigners) have received for using the 'transphobic' term female as well as woman, I have a feeling that that wouldn't be 'allowed'.

As Hibo herself says 'I am a woman. Get over it'.

Once they have 'woman', they will come after 'female'. You see some TW on twitter already calling themselves adult human females, that their sex is female. I mean, a TW said they'd go on the telly and show their cervix fgs

Anything that is a reminder there is a difference is not allowed. Anything that links the word woman to the female anatomy is not allowed, because it gives males the sad feels by pointing out there is a difference.

Hence why "TWAW" and women are "birthing bodies", "bodies with vaginas" and "menstuators". No reference to being female. There may be an argument that female can't be used because it's offensive to TM and NB, I'm not wholly buying it. Female can't be used because it's "difference" to those who are claiming woman. And if we can't have female, they can.

@Elephantsparade the Stanisland question has been asked of many politicians. They cannot or decline to answer -

'Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?'

@Elephantsparade
I don't agree.
I think we need to clearly define and agree what words mean as a starting point.

@Kendodd

A trans man was interviewed by Evan Davis on PM on R4 yesterday. Trans man was pregnant with second child. I would have liked Evan to ask what the childs birth certificate will say.

The trans man in question wanted to be named as father on their first child's birth certificate and went to court to try to achieve this.

It was ruled that a person who gestated and delivered a child was that child's mother IIRC. Regardless of gender identity.

Hence why "TWAW" and women are "birthing bodies", "bodies with vaginas" and "menstuators". No reference to being female. There may be an argument that female can't be used because it's offensive to TM and NB, I'm not wholly buying it. Female can't be used because it's "difference" to those who are claiming woman. And if we can't have female, they can.

Oh, god. This makes horrible but perfect sense.

Well I'm glad common sense prevails in that.

Freddie McConnell - who wanted to be named as father on their child's birth certificate -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-52471697.amp

@FreeBritnee

I prefer the term ‘assigned female at birth’. I wrote recently that Ive seen this recently on lots of forms abd it doesn’t offend me at all.

My cat was observed to be female at birth (well actually a little later by the rescue centre). Should she pop to the doctors for a smear test?

Or is it only human females who should go? I think we have a word for human females. "Women".

Hence why "TWAW" and women are "birthing bodies", "bodies with vaginas" and "menstuators". No reference to being female. There may be an argument that female can't be used because it's offensive to TM and NB, I'm not wholly buying it. Female can't be used because it's "difference" to those who are claiming woman

I was thinking about this yesterday - if TWAW and women are menstruators, then does it not follow that TWAM? (M being menstruators) which of course they are not.

Posie was dead right in standing so firm on woman = adult human female

I didnt say the words dont need defining but I didnt feel the question did much to make that clear to people who hadnt already thought about the issue a lot.

my twitter was full of people saying they werent a woman and had a cervix. I literally couldnt understand what they thought the word woman meant and why they didnt identify with it.

@MummBraTheEverLeaking

Once they have 'woman', they will come after 'female'. You see some TW on twitter already calling themselves adult human females, that their sex is female. I mean, a TW said they'd go on the telly and show their cervix fgs

Anything that is a reminder there is a difference is not allowed. Anything that links the word woman to the female anatomy is not allowed, because it gives males the sad feels by pointing out there is a difference.

Hence why "TWAW" and women are "birthing bodies", "bodies with vaginas" and "menstuators". No reference to being female. There may be an argument that female can't be used because it's offensive to TM and NB, I'm not wholly buying it. Female can't be used because it's "difference" to those who are claiming woman. And if we can't have female, they can.

This is it. This is indeed the case.

The word woman has been systematically and relentlessly detached from having a biological basis.

Munro Bergdorf, a well known transwoman, famously said at the beginning of the women's march, you're obviously all welcome, but please try not to centre your biology as we find it offensive/othering. (This was in response to American women wearing little pink woolly hats called pussyhats, as a protest to Donald Trump claiming he 'grabs women by the pussy').

This all has very little to do with transmen.

This is so that the word woman can be claimed by those with a male biology.

The word woman must not be dependent on female biology.

Hence the phrase only women have a cervix being considered transphobic, whilst simultaneously women are being called cervix havers.

It's the word woman coupled with cervix, that must not happen.