Stonewall wade into the cervix debate

[OvaHere]

And complain that the very things they lobbied for are now putting people at risk.

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1442536359990743042

Yes Stonewall, if people change their sex markers on medical records they may not get the health care they need.

We told you this.

There just aren't enough facepalms.

For cervical screenings, only people with an ‘F’ marker on their GP registration are currently automatically invited for a screening. Although everyone with a cervix can request screening, the current IT system doesn’t automatically invite those with an ‘M’ marker.

This puts the onus on trans and non-binary people to request screening, and results in barriers to accessing this crucial healthcare. A recent study found that only 58 per cent of trans male and non-binary interviewees had been screened

@NiceGerbil

Have they considered that people with gender dysphoria may be less likely to go for smears-

1. If they are named according to the sexed body that they are unhappy with, using words for female organs?

1. If you have never dysphoria.. Lying on you back and having something put up your vagina might be something particularly difficult to go through with.

What do you suggest? New names for sex specific body parts?

Dear Mr Ladybits,

Please attend the surgery because we want to look at your downstairs inside wibbly.

Dear Ms Redundantpenis

Please attend the surgery because we want to look at your back bottom lumpy.

Lack of a cervix is also medically relevant in anyone born female.

Not according to Stonewall. It's just an interesting fact of no particular relevance. You shouldn't assume that people should have a cervix just cos they're assigned female at birth, you bigot.

But Scully, it might not entail any inspection or verifying at all. I mean, would would lie to their doctor???

I thought they were all traumatised etc? or something. There wouldn't possibly be any advocacy to even further enable the medical version of suicide by cop....would there?

The absurdity of all this just gets too much some days.

FFS. This is the heart of the insanity. THERE IS NO ESCAPING YOUR BIOLOGY. PRETENDING THAT YOU CAN, COULD SERIOUSLY DAMAGE YOUR HEALTH. THE ORGANISATIONS ADVOCATING FOR THIS ARE DANGEROUS.

Medical records are statements of fact, not intended to prop up the craziness of gender identity.

ARRRRRRRTGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Imagine the chaos that the screening system would be thrown into if invitations were sent out to men automatically.

Imagine the terrible knock-on effects the availability of appointments for people who need them and the impact it would have on women’s health.

Are we sure that destroying women’s healthcare isn’t the actual goal here?

@NiceGerbil

Have they considered that people with gender dysphoria may be less likely to go for smears-

1. If they are named according to the sexed body that they are unhappy with, using words for female organs?

1. If you have never dysphoria.. Lying on you back and having something put up your vagina might be something particularly difficult to go through with.

It’s not a barrel of laughs for any woman. Does any woman shout with glee that her smear is due when she gets the letter?

1. I now insist on seeing one particular nurse. She uses what looks like a child’s paintbrush (even though it’s more expensive) as she can gently collect the cells by brushing them. Previously I had been scraped hard by a wooden lolly stick (twice by a man, once by a woman) which really hurt and caused bleeding. With the brush I can just about tolerate it. I don’t know what I will do if she leaves the surgery.

1. Rape victims and those with vaginitis find it especially difficult, but they apparently have to “get over themselves” and are horrible bigots if they are not happy that are being gaslight that the person doing the procedure is not male-bodied when they clearly are and triggering their PTSD.

Not according to Stonewall. It's just an interesting fact of no particular relevance. You shouldn't assume that people should have a cervix just cos they're assigned female at birth, you bigot.

Yes. This is where it's really unhinged, anti-science, quasi religious magical thinking. Both sexes can have a cervix, as they don't acknowledge that biological sex is distinct from "gender" or meaningful in any way.

To start turning their focus on the use of well woman clinics is utterly reprehensible

The attitude is that they don't want they so we can't have them.

TRA's have systematically targeted any and every female only group, shelter, charity, business etc, and demanded they be 'trans inclusive' by letting males in. If they won"t immediately bow down to the new orthodoxy, they are then attacked and harassed on social media (plus all the death and rape threats) to try get them shut down or lose funding/clients.

No male only anything is attacked, (except that one male only gay swim session where the body with a vagina got rightly told to fuck right off because, funny enough, gay men only like penis)

We know it isn't about females with trans identities.
We know it's all about males removing anything that's ours. They don't actually want or need any of the things.

The hated for women is so utterly clear.
They despise us. Especially middle aged women, because we can see them. The misogyny, the homophobia, the coercive control, the gaslighting, the male entitlement and aggression.

Are they suggesting that cervical smear invitations should also be sent to men?

Is there a missing tweet?

I think what they want is for every individual to have a list of organs / body parts that need care, and for healthcare to be offered on this basis.

So:
Dragon.hasCervix=True
Dragon.hasVagina=True
Dragon.hasBreasts=True
Dragon.hasOvaries=True
Dragon.hasUterus=True
Dragon.hasPenis=False

It would actually work, it's just unnecessarily complicated. And ignores the fact that for the overwhelming majority of people their biological sex class tells you what kind of healthcare they need.

Some FtM trans would definitely complain if they received automatic smear invites as they would find it upsetting to be reminded of their biology. The NHS can’t win on this, damned if you do & damned if you don’t.

Trans patients need to take responsibility for their own insistence on falsifying their medical records.
If a woman has demanded to be recorded as male, it is certainly not the GP’s fault if no cervical screening appointment is sent out.
Actions have consequences.
And I am heartened by the ratio on the Stonewall tweet.

Some FtM trans would definitely complain if they received automatic smear invites as they would find it upsetting to be reminded of their biology. The NHS can’t win on this, damned if you do & damned if you don’t

Then the answer is just to say no.

To say no the records must reflect reality. We will not change it. To do so leads us open to law suits etc . Say that we are here to help you come to terms with reality if you want or need us. But the responsibility is on thr patient to come to terms with reality not the world to pretend reality doesn't exist.

The NHS can’t win on this, damned if you do & damned if you don’t.

They should realise that however much they pander to these people, it will never be enough.

My eyes are rolling so hard they have motion sickness.

This is a problem you created stonewall, this is on you, no one else.

Idiots.

@OvaHere

And complain that the very things they lobbied for are now putting people at risk.

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1442536359990743042

Yes Stonewall, if people change their sex markers on medical records they may not get the health care they need.

We told you this.

There just aren't enough facepalms.

For cervical screenings, only people with an ‘F’ marker on their GP registration are currently automatically invited for a screening. Although everyone with a cervix can request screening, the current IT system doesn’t automatically invite those with an ‘M’ marker.

This puts the onus on trans and non-binary people to request screening, and results in barriers to accessing this crucial healthcare. A recent study found that only 58 per cent of trans male and non-binary interviewees had been screened

🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The NHS can’t win on this, damned if you do & damned if you don’t.

They should realise that however much they pander to these people, it will never be enough.

Absolutely right, Eresh. The NHS has only got themselves to blame. A small minority asked the organisation to change medical records, now they are seeing the consequences for not recording accurate information.

As an aside I have just received the form for my primary school aged child’s flu vaccine. It asks what gender they are and has three options; Male, Female and Non-binary. They are under 8 years old. I’m so cross. The NHS has a real problem recording accurate sex data.

The pandering is starting to backfire and putting lives in danger. Stonewall has made a major contribution to making people’s (mainly women and children’s) lives worse.

@Helleofabore

We are all going to be reduced to a series of tick boxes for body parts and functions in the future.

And when a male presents at A&E with the ticks for

Vagina (because there won’t be a listing for neo vagina)
Estrogen dominant
Breast tissue

The doctors will feel confident to provide this person with blood donated from someone with the same ticks but also one that says they have been pregnant before.

That is ok, isn’t it? It doesn’t give away either person’s sex because stonewall has told us sex doesn’t matter. And made it possible to change medical sex markers.

I find this completely miserable because some technostar believes this is the solution - the dehumanisation of what should be one of the most compassionate and humane services we can render each other.

As someone once said, "Person with vagina/cervix/breasts and whathaveyou." ....Didn't there used to be a word for this?

The NHS can’t win on this, damned if you do & damned if you don’t.

Which is why there's a need for negotiation about services that includes everyone, including women and anyone else who is likely to be impacted by changes to services and the available budgets.

Some form of this does need to be done. There have to be NICE guidelines or the equivalent in the 4 nations. But, it must include all stakeholders or it's likely to privilege some groups/protected characteristics above others.

@Moonwatcher1234

I have been more or less indifferent to this whole debate (actually felt uncomfortable at the alliances being forged on this issue) but have progressed to feeling that enough is enough. To start turning their focus on the use of well woman clinics is utterly reprehensible. These are places women go to at sometimes distressing, sometimes happy (after birth of a baby for example) circumstances and are off limits.

Nothing is off-limits. In fact, the more off-limits something is considered, the more intensely it's targeted.

Hence women in rape refuges being told they need to reframe their trauma to accept men as women, otherwise they will be considered bigoted.

The Denton report demonstrates that these are deliberate tactics. If you can get people to accept the extremes, the moderate issues like toilets will just fall into place.

And it's not the Well Woman clinics that are the crux, it's the women in them. If all the women left and went elsewhere, the clinic would no longer be appealing. The presence of women, often, as you say, distressed women, is crucial.

It's the women who are the resource, not the space.

Hang on, I though our sex wasn't recorded anyway - it's gender the NHS recognise IIRC.

Do Stonewall disagree with this?

The Denton report demonstrates that these are deliberate tactics. If you can get people to accept the extremes, the moderate issues like toilets will just fall into place.

Yes. There was a quote from James Morton of STA, I think in Christine Burns book, where the plan to target prisons first is laid out for exactly these reasons. If you can get the world to accept male offenders in women's prisons then you can get them to accept anything. I can't find the screenshot but it's been well circulated before.

@DickKerrLadies

Hang on, I though our sex wasn't recorded anyway - it's gender the NHS recognise IIRC.

Do Stonewall disagree with this?

Steady, thats a bit too logical for queer theorists to cope with. There's probably an amusing circular flow chart in there...

I think targeting the extreme off-limits stuff is a "validation" issue as well as a political tactic. Quite early on in this insanity, the targets were Dianic Wiccans, and of course Michfest. The more intensely that women want to keep males out, the more intense the "validation" thrills that certain segments of the "trans community" receive from violating these boundaries.