Stonewall wade into the cervix debate

[OvaHere]

And complain that the very things they lobbied for are now putting people at risk.

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1442536359990743042

Yes Stonewall, if people change their sex markers on medical records they may not get the health care they need.

We told you this.

There just aren't enough facepalms.

For cervical screenings, only people with an ‘F’ marker on their GP registration are currently automatically invited for a screening. Although everyone with a cervix can request screening, the current IT system doesn’t automatically invite those with an ‘M’ marker.

This puts the onus on trans and non-binary people to request screening, and results in barriers to accessing this crucial healthcare. A recent study found that only 58 per cent of trans male and non-binary interviewees had been screened

Half of all those who didn't attend screening did so because of their dysphoria, not because they hadn't been invited.

The study itself is clearly not the problem.

He would like to see cervical screening appointments sent out to all people with cervices, regardless of how they identify.

But how would we know who they are?

Would we need some sort of initial check where we try to figure out whether we do (or should) have a cervix?

I guess that sort of thing could be confirmed at birth if there was some way to do it easily and non-obtrusively?

Dunno, just working this through. It's complicated.

@NiceGerbil

Have they considered that people with gender dysphoria may be less likely to go for smears-

1. If they are named according to the sexed body that they are unhappy with, using words for female organs?

1. If you have never dysphoria.. Lying on you back and having something put up your vagina might be something particularly difficult to go through with.

That's kind of their lookout though isn't it?

Maybe some more mental health support to help them get over this.

I mean, cancer patients probably aren't very comfortable being described as such, but will understand for the sake of their health that it's important to be described as such (and treated as such) in a medical setting.

“Why did you let me eat all that ice cream I tantrummed for, mummy, you’ve given me a tummy ache!”

So Stonewall are demanding that the NHS come up with a way of divining sex without mentioning or recording it, is that right?

What IS this amazing machine that can ascertain sex-which-must-not-be-named and pass it through a genderwoo filter to provide the perfectly affirmative and sensitively worded suggestion that a body with one of those things we cant say should maybe like to come and get checked for something else we can't name in order to sensitively cater for the needs of the very most precious ones while NHS resources are still struggling under the weight of a fucking pandemic and years of austerity?

Let's order one for every GP!

It’s important to focus on what one needs, rather than what was estimated they needed when they were born.

But if a baby is female and recorded as female then that person will need invites to smears from age 25. So nothing has changed and everything should work.as sex predicts future needs fairly accurately in this instance?

Just so long as no idiots insist that the sex marker is removed or altered. Because that would be really silly and possibly endanger people's lives. And any organisation complicit in this kind of reckless obfuscation should be held responsible for all the damage done to female bodies.

So re: the 58%, not only do we ponder what the equivalent stat is for people with cervices who are not trans, but we might recall it being said that many transmen have experienced some form of abuse, and would find a smear test even more traumatic than the average person with a cervix. I think 58% is quite high, considering.

What about people’s own responsibility to get themselves checked?

They may not get invitations for a smear test but what is holding them back to pick up the phone every couple of years to make an appointment with their GP?

Just read an article from 2018 that said for under 50's in certain areas less than 50% had had a smear test within the recommended period. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45593583

I have been more or less indifferent to this whole debate (actually felt uncomfortable at the alliances being forged on this issue) but have progressed to feeling that enough is enough. To start turning their focus on the use of well woman clinics is utterly reprehensible. These are places women go to at sometimes distressing, sometimes happy (after birth of a baby for example) circumstances and are off limits.

Nicegerbilwith regard to your bullet point 2., so true, because all cis women with no gender disphoria really get off on having something metal shoved up their vag. So much so that every cis woman always goes to their screening appointments and none ever die of cervical cancers. Lucky us, eh.

Sorry for the crudity but I'm past being polite now.

Please tell me no one is stupid enough to pay for " retraining " after first lot if " training " that got them into the mess in the first place

You got what you asked for. Either live with it , or take some responsibility and admit it was foolish and we can all go back to recording sex which is what really matters.

The sooner you realise no one outside your friends and family even cares about your gender identity the better. And that's how it should be becuase indulging the level of paranoia and self obsession that leads people to assume that their purchases or their sex markers are sone kind of value judgement as opposed to something everyone buys it has , is really not healthy.

While everyone hates feminists for our " biological essentialism " whatever that is, remember who it is that cause all these problems in the first place and have made money out of placing your health at risk

And I use 'cis' with the rolliest of eye rolls.

Ah yes Scully, frequent and expensive retraining required to constantly update the invented theory of the week and fix the issues created by last week's training.

But if a baby is female and recorded as female then that person will need invites to smears from age 25. So nothing has changed and everything should work.as sex predicts future needs fairly accurately in this instance?

Agree. Lack of a cervix is also medically relevant in anyone born female.

Similarly lack of periods.

So, according to Stonewall:

Risk that someone may avoid life saving medical care for fear of being confronted with unpalatable words: an urgent problem which society must solve

Risk that someone may avoid life saving medical care for fear of being confronted with a person of the opposite sex in an intimate and vulnerable setting: a result of bigotry which the individual must overcome.

Got it, thanks

@LobsterNapkin

I wonder, if you look at women with a similar age profile to the majority of transmen, what % of them have been screened?

According to Jo’s trust, 63% of 25-29 year olds attended their screening.

A bbc article from 2018 says 72% of 25-50 year olds have had a smear test within the relevant recommended period for their age.

That second stat should be 25-64 year olds, not 50

While everyone hates feminists for our " biological essentialism " whatever that is

Biological essentialism is the belief that women should be restricted to domesticity because of their reproductive role.

Feminists believe this is bollocks and campaign for laws and services so that women have choices.

Genderists (Stonewall) believe various logically incompatible things, but mainly that women shouldn’t have any specific rights or services because some people find sex upsetting.

The easiest fix here is for Stonewall et al to agree and promote that sex and gender are two separate things. That would satisfy those on all sides of the debate.

Except the Trans Activists- but they seem to want to rage against everything and everyone so, shrug.

Biological essentialism is the belief that women should be restricted to domesticity because of their reproductive role

Aaah so it's not even used right? 🤣 it gets flung around a fair bit I guess they think it means we are obsessed with biology or something trivial like that

Shoulda known it was just the whole "if I sound like I'm choking on a thesaurus they won't realise I'm talking bollocks" tactic

We are all going to be reduced to a series of tick boxes for body parts and functions in the future.

And when a male presents at A&E with the ticks for

Vagina (because there won’t be a listing for neo vagina)
Estrogen dominant
Breast tissue

The doctors will feel confident to provide this person with blood donated from someone with the same ticks but also one that says they have been pregnant before.

That is ok, isn’t it? It doesn’t give away either person’s sex because stonewall has told us sex doesn’t matter. And made it possible to change medical sex markers.

@Datun

It turns out that the thing Stonewall insist these patients must have - automatic invitations - is not wanted by half of them.

I dare say stonewall will come up with a nice, costly subscription service to provide all the complicated letters and database flags necessary to tackle the issue.

Just sign here ...

This is exactly the issue.

Once you start sending automatic invites to trans-men for their cervical and breast screening appointments, you just know a certain proportion will complain about being traumatised by being either reminded of their biological sex, or, treated differently from 'cis' (hate the term), women.

That is ok, isn’t it? It doesn’t give away either person’s sex because stonewall has told us sex doesn’t matter. And made it possible to change medical sex markers

That sounds awfully like genital inspections which I thought were supposed to be a bad thing? But now they save declaring sex and enable false paperwork to stand so would be considered a good thing?

My head hurts

But Scully, it might not entail any inspection or verifying at all. I mean, would would lie to their doctor???