Scottish "Uni societies targeted with online abuse"

[MargaritaPie]

brignews.com/2020/05/18/uni-societies-targeted-with-online-abuse/

brignews.com/2021/09/23/anti-trans-leaflets-reported-as-hate-crime-to-police-scotland-by-student-union/

At Stirling Uni, leaflets of a Gender Critical nature which have misleading information have been left around campus (and reported to Police Scotland), and Uni societies have been targeted with online abuse regarding their stance on trans-rights. A student has received death threats which has also been reported to police.

A lot of it seems to do with the Gender Reform Act, and personally I think there is some misunderstanding over what the GRA is actually about. For example transwomen using women's changing rooms or transwomen being sent to a woman's prison is nothing to do with the GRA- the Equality Act allows transwomen to use women's facilities and prisons decide on a case-by-case basis where a trans-prisoner should go. Gender Criticals do know this, right?

transwomen being sent to a woman's prison is nothing to do with the GRA- the Equality Act allows transwomen to use women's facilities and prisons decide on a case-by-case basis where a trans-prisoner should go.

You don't seem to be very well informed.

However, all individuals who are transgender must be initially allocated to part of the estate which matches their legally recognised gender

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863610/transgender-pf.pdf

‘Anti-trans’ leaflets reported as ‘hate crime’ to Police Scotland by Students’ Union
Brig has viewed the materials which contain references to women’s rights

If women's rights are 'anti-trans' that makes 'trans rights' anti-women doesn't it?

Oh Margarita, stretching for something to complain about, are we?

News story is from May….

Example of transphobic abuse cited? “Misogynistic wee pricks”!

If you designate anything non-fawning as transphobic then the whole world is transphobic. Really, please try to focus on issues of genuine harm, not ridiculous made-up sensations of offence.

Are those the same leaflets that the Police said we're not hateful in Kinross?

Women’s rights are not a hate crime.

This seems a common get out clause to not allowing anyone to form their own opinion. It is impossible to therefore know if this transphobic material is "they should all die" or "woman = adult human female'. I imagine it is the latter.

The editorial decision has been made, after consultation with the Union, to omit direct quotes so as to not further any harm these materials have caused to the student community.

For example transwomen using women's changing rooms or transwomen being sent to a woman's prison is nothing to do with the GRA

@MargaritaPie That's not the case, allow me to explain:

• As Oldcrone shows above, the default assumption if a male has a GRC is that he goes into women's prison. If self ID gets through then it will become trivially easy for men to enter women's prisons.

• Much of the protections for women only spaces are based on custom rather than law. If an obvious man goes into a women's changing room, currently people will object. Once self-ID comes in that will become impossible.

This protects (genuine) transwomen just as much as women because they work hard to pass. Predators don't give a shit about passing- in fact making women uncomfortable is usually part of the thrill.

Equality Act allows transwomen to use women's facilities and prisons decide on a case-by-case basis where a trans-prisoner should go

I thought the 'case by case basis' meant situations where they refer to the male sex class as a whole, not individuals.

So rape crisis centres can legally refuse ALL males regardless of 'identity' if they use the Equality Act exemptions.

Which is why TRA's are deliberately targeting these exemptions because, as entiltled males, they don't see females as humans worthy of safety, privacy and dignity, fair sports, child safeguarding etc etc.

The need for female protections should always be put before males demanding validation.

These leaflets? These leaflets with facts and links to websites? These leaflets which the student 'newspaper' declined to quote
so there was (rather handily) no evidence to back up their claim?

So as I thought then wait It's a piece of paper, the largest harm from it would be a paper cut.

Previous thread with discussion:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4357982-Hate-crime-at-Stirling-Uni

@Waitwhat23

These leaflets? These leaflets with facts and links to websites? These leaflets which the student 'newspaper' declined to quote so there was (rather handily) no evidence to back up their claim?

These "facts" aren't even accurate. See image.

And can you name just one person who has been "arrested for saying a woman is an adult human female"?

"News story is from May…."

One of the links is but the other is from Sep 23rd.

Have you made a resolution to get abreast of all things Scottish, Margarita? 🤣 that’s a turn up.

If women's rights are 'anti-trans' that makes 'trans rights' anti-women doesn't it?

Spot on.

Some shifting of goal posts going on there Margarita. Organisations preempting reform are already allowing any man onto female hospital wards, if they merely say they are a women. Women's shelters are being defunded because they don't admit members of the male sex. Male sex offenders are sharing showers with female prisoners. MSPs voted against raped women being allowed to choose to be medically examined by a female examiner. Nothing to do with the anticipated GRA reform

These "facts" aren't even accurate. See image.

Well, MargaritaPie, your image contains some obvious untruths about shelters and prisons. The latter particularly pertinent to Scotland where the Scottish Prison Service has been unequivocal that a prisoner with a GRC will be housed in the women's estate, no exception, whereas those without are assessed.

But more importantly, it does not have anything to do with the text of the leaflet. So why did you post this?

These "facts" aren't even accurate. See image.

Yeah, they also said that the GRA would never allow biological males to compete in women's sports, would never allow biological males into women's prisons, would never allow biological males to take jobs reserved for women (like running a rape crisis centre). ''That's utterly ridiculous'', they said, and yet look where were are...

Males taking women's places in sports, convicted rapists being housed in women's prisons and sexually assaulting/raping women there (and they don't even need a GRC for that), and on and on and on.

Women won't wheesht, Margarita however much you want them to

"MSPs voted against raped women being allowed to choose to be medically examined by a female examiner."

If someone attends hospital (for anything) they have a right to request someone else if they aren't comfortable with the person they have been allocated, right? Sure it might cause a delay for the patient if they don't immediately have someone else available but patients do have the right to say "I would prefer a woman to see me". So why the hysteria?

@Eyesofdisarray

Women won't wheesht, Margarita however much you want them to

Ooh don't use that saying, Margarita doesn't like or respect that Scottish people have linguistic and dialectic terms that are different from the rest of the UK.

"Gender Criticals won't wheesht, Margarita however much you want them to"

Could the GCs at least try to state accurate facts instead of misleading the public, and lose the whole "transwomen are sex offenders/potential sex offenders" which seems to be strongly implied from a lot of things I've read.

All transwomen are not sex offenders, just as all men are not sex offenders. However transwomen are also no less likely to be sex offenders than any other males. Male prisoners who sexually assault women are excluded from female prisons, yet in Scotland male sex offenders are put in female prisons, if they say they are women. Where is the logic in that?

@MargaritaPie

"Gender Criticals won't wheesht, Margarita however much you want them to"

Could the GCs at least try to state accurate facts instead of misleading the public, and lose the whole "transwomen are sex offenders/potential sex offenders" which seems to be strongly implied from a lot of things I've read.

Just as well nobody does this, isn’t it?

This is a misrepresentation. We talk about the fact that a transition which may be as little as changes of clothes, makeup and pronoun use is not a good measure of that person having changed the statistical probability of offending in the sex class to which they belong.

You do see the difference, don’t you? Nobody is singling out transwomen from the general population of male bodied people. You are doing the equivalent of “not all men”, but for transwomen.

If you don’t get that, then that is honestly on you as not having understood.

but patients do have the right to say "I would prefer a woman to see me". So why the hysteria?

But those MSPs voted to deny them the right to ask for a female examiner.

If someone attends hospital (for anything) they have a right to request someone else if they aren't comfortable with the person they have been allocated,

A rape victim wouldn't be requesting any old someone else. She'd be specifically requesting someone of the same sex as her.

patients do have the right to say "I would prefer a woman to see me".

A woman hmmm. That's why language matters. A biologically male feminine person with a GRC could claim to be such a woman. EA2010 single sex exemptions allow a rape victim to be examined by someone of the same sex as her.