LBC Coverage this week

[Slythermum]

LBC have been covering gender issues quite a lot this week, and not to small audiences either. Suzanne Moore was just on, Debbie Hayton on Maajid Nawaz (Maajid knows exactly what is going on and is very supportive towards women and children in this matter) - feels like the tide is about to turn.

I wonder how many times people on FWR have thought the tide is turning?

This week a set of appeal judges couldn't even take the time to ensure all of the facts in their judgment about the Tavistock were accurate.

There are several commentaries on this, including Michael Biggs when interviewed by Glinner.

Glinner again tells the story of a misjudged prank from a GC tweeter that has now led to the loss of the term Mother and Baby Unit or Maternity services in a hospital.

Ed Davy, Layla Moran = more people who are so disengaged that they won't pay the common courtesy of thinking through their position or getting their facts right.

Rosie Duffield can't attend her own political party's conference. Keir Starmer was so disturbed that he sent her a text enquiry about her wellbeing.

The tide is not fucking turning, I don't know how anyone can be so complacent as to think it is, when every major institution and company is captured.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

The tide is not fucking turning, I don't know how anyone can be so complacent as to think it is, when every major institution and company is captured.

I share this anger and, frankly, despair.

While males in prison for VAWG are still legally housed in women's prisons I don't think we're getting anywhere much.

Although I do see many more saying no thanks on SM, comments sections, and there is way more mainstream coverage of the women's rights points.

I do think the general public who 99% of know what female is and use women girl to mean female-

See it as a niche/ women's issue
Aren't really interested in the topic at least not enough to make a fuss
A fair amount are MRA leanings or enjoying feminists 'getting a taste of their own medicine'
See it as trivial compared to everything else (which is understandable)
Find it so nonsensical that they don't believe it's really that bad/ find the convoluted language and often more subtle consequences (no way to describe female people as a group at all and what that really means for women and girls)
Accept the reassurance that it's all fine no conflict because then they can stop thinking about it
And of course
The fact that even the guardian uses woman/ girl to mean sex when it's international news/ covid sex differences/ mvaw on the front and main pages. Means many don't see it in action as it were.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

The tide is not fucking turning, I don't know how anyone can be so complacent as to think it is, when every major institution and company is captured.

Nothing complacent about me. Not when I have spent a lot of time digging and digging. And yes the Tavistock ruling is disappointing. But this week alone, there's been several articles in the Times including Rosie on the front page - and I'm seeing articles across other mags and journals with many many positive comments compared to 6 months ago when there would be Jo March and a few others being drowned out by men making jokes. LBC has covered various issues around this several times this week with many callers who are spot on with the issues.

Hollyrood a couple of weeks ago with a few HUNDRED women.
Personally I'm seeing more and more women waking up. I think the tide is about to turn. By no means does it imply I'm about to stop doing the things I do every day because I think it's all over. I'm not fucking stupid thanks.

I should also probably say that I've been here a long time but name changed because of an abusive ex. So I'm quite aware of how many ups and downs we have had, hoping things would change.

I totally understand your positivity! Don't get me wrong.

I'm just old and cynical !

There’s an early morning presenter on the weekends who seems to be ‘on side’. He does mention the whole issue a fair bit and plays the ‘but I just don’t understand, maybe I’m being a bit dim... but - how can a male bodied person be a woman?’

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

The tide is not fucking turning, I don't know how anyone can be so complacent as to think it is, when every major institution and company is captured.

I think it is becoming more in the mainstream. No one can pretend they haven’t seen the issues and can work out where this will go. It will change - sadly people here seem to follow the US version.

It certainly feels that there is far more mainstream coverage than there was. Previously it was just The Guardian publishing beeeee kiiiiind articles a few times a week while the BBC ran programmes on cbbc abd bbc 3 toeing the most oppressed ever beeeee kindddd line as well

Now pretty much every paper covers it or comments on it & the sun light is pouring in

The question now is what changes (if any) will happen because of it

There was a Lib Dem MP on yesterday who when asked for the definition of women, couldn't or wouldn't answer. It's so frustrating

R4 now - Rosie...

An Labour MP cannot attend Conference safely because she expressed mildly GC views. A potential LibDem MP has been indefinitely banned from standing for stating the dictionary definition of woman. Women in Scotland are about to lose all rights to single-sex spaces. TW have just competed in women's events in the Olympics. This would all have been inconceivable just a few years ago.

On what planet is the tide turning? A bit of rumbling on LBC is nothing- absolutely nothing- in comparison with what we are losing, right now.

We need women to be angry and to fight, not to delude themselves that it's all going to be ok.

It feels as if it's hit a wall. There are a number of irreconcilables on either side (I'd count myself as one of them). Awareness is relatively high compared to a couple of years ago. And that's it. There's no shift, nowhere to go. Everybody is in their lane and nobody is moving.

It is perfectly true that the younger people are, the more likely they are to believe TWAW. So probably in 15 years when eg I'm heading for retirement, the entire thing will be a dead letter, something we reminisce about, Julie Bindel appearing on 'i love the 20s' shows on our implanted digital streamers. I'm not sure how that will come about though.

When big business finds another hobby horse and all the endorsements and rainbows dry up, then it will start to crumble. But yes, keep fighting.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

It certainly feels that there is far more mainstream coverage than there was. Previously it was just The Guardian publishing beeeee kiiiiind articles a few times a week while the BBC ran programmes on cbbc abd bbc 3 toeing the most oppressed ever beeeee kindddd line as well

Now pretty much every paper covers it or comments on it & the sun light is pouring in

The question now is what changes (if any) will happen because of it

This.

We lost the Bell judgment, but we literally couldn't have bought the publicity it received.

Politicians are going to start being asked the questions. They'd better have answers because whatever sounded good in party meetings and the LGBT+ community, refusing to define what a woman is makes you look like a twat as far as the general public are concerned.

I feel like it might not be the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning. We're getting traction - now that needs to beget movement.

Males in women's prisons is absolutely key. When something is done about that I'll feel the tide genuinely is turning.

Younger people are more likely to think that TWAW because that’s what they’ve been taught /brainwashed behind the backs of their parents.

Not the teens in my sphere.

On what planet is the tide turning?…

We need women to be angry and to fight, not to delude themselves that it's all going to be ok.

Burningly complete agreement.

As Ms Eyelsbarrow says, the situation in Scotland is (to my mind) unthinkable to the point of insanity. Is there any sense that the whole of the populace grasps the nuances of the Hate Crime Bill and what is being perpetrated on women? Do they know what human rights are being compromised and freedoms discarded?

Look at MN and the sequestration of this issue here. From the main parts of MN, do you have any sense that women here fully understand what is happening to their rights, to safeguarding of their children, to our existence as a sex and not as a category that encompasses the whole of 'not-men' by declaration?

MN has probably taken a huge hit to their traffic but they were willing to do that to reduce the profile of this subforum. (And that was probably a wise business decision.)

I know a lot of us dig for these legal actions so it corrodes my soul when I see judgments like Bell's that have such obvious flaws and realise that this has to go to an expensive appeal. I hope Bell plus Appleby in the context of Webberley's ongoing hearing has a chilling effect in the interim, but it should not be this horrendously difficult to get judges to pay full attention to their briefs and understand the issues.

I just wish - now that the debate is becoming much more mainstream, that anyone who is GC, clearly states whether they are debating women's rights, or trans rights. I am finding this increasingly frustrating. The labelling of everything as transrights skews the debate. This is about women's rights and we need to be shouting that out loud and clear, especially when posting comments in places other than MN

@KittenKong

When big business finds another hobby horse and all the endorsements and rainbows dry up, then it will start to crumble. But yes, keep fighting.

It will be in law and business HR policies then. All of these young people will have left university and started tinkering with the phrasing like Ceri (?) recently and the NHS pages.

They'll work their way up, taking this default attitudes with them and never once being subject to critical thought or engagement or the task of truly producing an EqIA.

Helen Joyce recognises this. Even now it would take 10 years+ to unpick all of this mess, possibly 20 - and that's without such abhorrences as Scotland's Hate Crime Bill. Grief knows what will happen if the EU version of that is adopted within Europe.

@highame

I just wish - now that the debate is becoming much more mainstream, that anyone who is GC, clearly states whether they are debating women's rights, or trans rights. I am finding this increasingly frustrating. The labelling of everything as transrights skews the debate. This is about women's rights and we need to be shouting that out loud and clear, especially when posting comments in places other than MN

Excellent point. I'll remember to do that consistently.

As they get older and wiser they will see what they are being blinded to now - the sexism, the misogyny, the ‘be a good girl’ and ‘be kind’ for what it is (‘shut up bitch), the unfairness of males being promoted over them again and agin in the basis of biology/old boys club, males taking and taking and taking...

Why didn’t you tell usssssss???

they will see what they are being blinded to now - the sexism, the misogyny, the ‘be a good girl’ and ‘be kind’ for what it is

They won't have the language or the concepts to express it. Sex will no longer be a binary. Think about that. With everything else that formed the context at the time, where would we be now with first and second wave feminism if that simple binary and our various roles in reproduction hadn't been accepted as part of the framework.

The ramifications of what is being done to medicine, to science as well as to law and wider social harms - they're vast. I can't begin to describe them.

I'll have to stop because I'm consumed with anger about this. I don't wish to spread my profound pessimism more widely. (Also a NC'r.)

Won’t have the language? I’m sure someone, somewhere will spot the difference...