Explaining to 11 year old why Karen is a slur

[amter]

So DD, 11 (and now DS 9) have come across the term Karen. They were telling me it is a funny way of describing someone (a woman) who reacts badly or is wrong. I think DD picked it up on youtube or somehow with her new mobile phone she received for secondary school.

I know that to me Karen feels like it targets middle aged women and puts them down regardless of what the situation is, it feels to me like a slur, putting women in their place. I'm not sure how to explain it though, especially in a way they will understand.

I told them that I don't like hearing that name and I find it offensive, I could almost hear their eyes roll and they were trying to tell me I just don't get it.

Any help appreciated :)

Get them to type their own name into this:

karenismyname.org/renamer

My DP's two kids are the same ages and are exactly the same.

I had similar with 11 year old DSS, who asked me if I knew what it meant after I had pointed out that he was being a shit to his dad. I said it was a sexist insult as there isn't an equivalent for men, like "slut", which he is not allowed to say. I also told him it was used by people who don't like women as a way of putting them down and telling them to stop and shut up, also a bit like slut. I think that was an ok explanation as I asked him what he thought it meant and he said he thought it was the same but funny because some middle aged youtuber they like is called Karen (?).

His sister was giving him daggers throughout the whole exchange - she is a natural feminist, in that she recognises female oppression in everyday life from observations without ever being taught about it e.g. says she never wants kids because the women do all the work (her dad is a stay at home dad and they live with us full time), that she will get a good job so that she never has to ask a man for money (even though I am the family breadwinner). I asked her what she thought of the term and she thought it was stupid and told her brother to never use it unless it was actually the person's name, which is probably more impactful coming from her than me.

My kids just picked this up from YouTube 9 and 10 I’ve told them not to use it but they thought it was hilarious and didn’t get the problem

It's not just sexist, it's also racist. As only a white woman can be a Karen.

I had to explain this to my 10yo who had picked it up from school. I just explained that it's someone's name and it's not nice for people called Karen for their name to be used as an insult.

When explaining this to my dd I think I may have bored her to death. I started rambling about the conflict between suffragettes in the US and anti slavers in the 1920s being the basis of White privileged woman vs Black man in American media and how this has ricocheted today. She's terrified to say Karen again in case I begin another ramble on the topic!

Haha that's maybe a good tactic for me to try, Orangesarenottheonlyfruit

It's ageist and sexist

@Shelddd

It's not just sexist, it's also racist. As only a white woman can be a Karen.

Those poor persecuted white people.

Maybe explain it in a way like, what if it was directed at secondary age kids, what if a quick way to shut down an 11 year old with a genuine grievance was to say "she's just being an Amelia" therefore their problem obviously isn't a real problem and doesn't deserve being heard, Amelia's obviously don't know real problems and their thoughts are just stupid so they should shut up because it's inconvenient for any of us real people to listen to. At best their reaction to being upset and ignored is mildly amusing to someone watching.

@Mlhactive

What's your point? Say what you really want to say.

I told mine that it was a way of shutting up women of a certain age who dare to have opinions. I think he gets it.
He did spend a while calling me a boomer, so I explained that bit of social history to him! I'm a Xenial and proud of it!

Come now Shelddd, as we know, the best way to reach true social justice is to identify new groups who can be targeted with impunity to replace the old groups who were targeted with impunity. Once everyone is attacking the new groups, who we all know are lesser than us, then life will be just great.

I've had to explain to my tween dc that I'm not a boomer, their grandparents are.

Also that sexism and ageism are what encourage the use of Karen.

They are bored of me pulling up on it so don't use it around me anymore.

DD did say it was a shame that older women didn't have more movie roles the other day so they are starting to think about the issues.

Like @Orangesarenottheonlyfruit my dc are scared enough of my lectures to avoid the word around me.

@spicedappledonuts

Like *@Orangesarenottheonlyfruit* my dc are scared enough of my lectures to avoid the word around me.

Yep

They don’t use gender either

Ds2 was receiving a lecture and obviously had a face on him, ds1 asked him what was wrong and ds2 said ‘I accidentally said gender’

Ds1 left at that point 😀

Surely the equivalent for men is Gammon, which has been used with glee by lots of people who don’t think it applies to them.

Seems to be exclusively used to describe middle aged men with particular views/attitudes, just as Karen describes middle aged women with particular views/attitudes.

It's ageist and sexist
It's a way of shutting down debate and dismissing women

@Shelddd

It's not just sexist, it's also racist. As only a white woman can be a Karen.

If that was ever true, it isn’t true now.

Rufus

just as Karen describes middle aged women with particular views/attitudes.

‘Gammon’ was used to describe men who held particular views on Brexit.

‘Karen’ is used as a term of abuse against any woman expressing disagreement.

Particular view or attitude

... that she is entitled to respect , to an opinion ?

Whatever its origins, many now define a 'Karen' as 'the sort of woman who wants to speak to the manager' when something is wrong. OMG, how dare she stand up for her everyday rights!

[quote Shelddd]@Mlhactive

What's your point? Say what you really want to say.[/quote]
That white people are not victims or persecution for being white.