LGBT+ hitching their cause to autism and neurodiversity

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

Sorry, I don't know how to provide a token.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lgbt-and-autism-project-postponed-after-ad-included-10-year-olds-hv68kkwgz

"The youth consultation project — called “Exploring Intersectionality” — was organised by Galway Autism Partnership and a volunteer group called Amach! LGBT Galway. It was funded under the LGBTI+ capacity building initiative by Tusla and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs.

The project documentation said it was aimed at promoting awareness within family support services of the issues faced by young people aged 10-24 who were autistic or neurodivergent and gay or trans."

The Times is reporting on it because the promotional literature advertised an age range 10 - 24, when the Galway Autism Partnership agreed to 16 - 24. It is being spun as a genuine mistake.

I'm very relieved to have found this and the other thread on autism here

What’s the other autism thread @theaccidentaleconomist ?

This one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4350896-Autism-society

Ok haven't rtft yet but am posting ruffly what I posted on another thread about this
Both my ds and I are diagnosed with ASD and other co-morbidities.
When I was a child in the 80s I struggled at school and was sent to many psychologists and psychiatrists who misdiagnosed ASD as BPD (as girls can't have ASD🤬) I was blamed for my asd, belittled and abused by teachers, students and family all because I have ASD and I'm gender non conforming (like most autistic people) only I was lucky to be part of genX rather than Y or Z I got several lovely and caring psychiatric professionals who used watchful waiting and a 4×great aunt who was an actual suffragette (went to jail and endured force feeding before the cat&mouse act) who taught me the truth about gendered stereotypes and how dangerous they are before I was truly able to understand their words and I see exactly what is going on in the ASD "support groups " especially amongst the parents groups (you know the same type who blame the MMR for their dcs ASD and those who would rather had a dead child than 1 with ASD).
You see its a multi pronged attack
1st, ASD is no longer a psychiatric disorder (which technically it shouldn't be as its a neurological diversity ie abnormal brain structures).
2nd, ASD becomes another type of identity that anyone can id into
3rd, ASD becomes the same as being trans (ie a subjective sense of being)
4th, Actual science about the visible differences between an ASD brain vs a neurotypical brain on an FMRI ( functional magnetic resonance imaging) can be twisted and used to bolster the (defunct in the 90s how is it back) lady/man brain theory, as if asd and trans are just a feeling and are the same and you can actually see an ASD brain it's only time until the incompetent/transphobic cis neurotypical het normative drs prove it.
5th, you get a particularly susceptible/vulnerable group of teenagers to bolster your claim and fight your corner.
6th, ASD becomes the new intersex gotcha against all the neurotypical cis hetro-normative White bigots (ignoring the fact that trans and ASD should be kept as far apart as possible)
7th ASD joins the qwerty alphabet soup (just like the I did) and more evidence of the T being everything.

1 massive problem with the plan those of us who actually have ASD and do our own research are immovable in our logic and reasoning as my DS's school learned when they tried to teach my ds the new scot gov approved RMPIE (religious moral philosophical?education) sex and DNA are immutable and the knowledge of such is protected (thank you miya) and ds.
The long and short of this is yet another power grab for predatory men.

With grassroots orgs, I think size becomes a factor. Smaller community based organisations can change direction, but aren't as likely to be of interest from those outside, or outsiders are recognized. Change from within the community isn't always negative, if it reflects the needs of the community. Although - small community politics can be brutal, so there's that.

I think the bigger risk of grassroots organisations are people. On the positive side they can be led by a individual(s) with a lot of drive to improve their community who have huge amounts of knowledge of how their community works. The risk there is they leave and the whole group flounders. On a more negative side they can be led or captured by people with a very personal agenda who are resistent to listening to others and who can not only undermine that service but also other services in the area and put a block on other activities.

NiceGerbil I think I get what you are getting at about norms. 1 in 20 is obviously not the norm - the 19 in 20 would be. But that 19/20 would only be in the norm for that particular measure. For other measures they may be outwith the norm. 'Neurodiversity' means the diversity of everyone and when we start to look at different measures everyone is likely to fall outwith the norm for some aspect or other.

The other issue is which population is involved? Wider society adopts these norms and cater to them so if you buy a Chinese dress off Amazon you might find it too short. Equally if you look at autistic groups on social media many are furiously promoting their own norm and sidelining those who are 'divergent' from their populations.

cabin that sounds awful I'm glad your aunt supported you she sounds amazing.

My daughter could well have been like you she slips under the radar so to speak and certainly when she was younger I just thought she was very stubborn & awkward. I still adapted for her but sometimes especially with well meaning comments from family I thought I was being to soft. I'm so glad that because we have other family members with autism that one day an incident happened and a light bulb went off in my head. Then we pursued a diagnosis.

Funnily enough NiceGerbil I have Aphantasia I am also in the bottom 4% for auditory processing which means I can't even see the words I've just heard and am trying to get into or out of my brain... it's very frustrating at times luckily I was diagnosed as an adult and now I deliberately don't put myself in situations were I would struggle to function. But if I hadn't and I had a job where that kind of processing was inherent My MH would massively suffer.

I agree with Tibtom we should study and understand all aspects of human physiology more then problem comes when people do it to validate their person beliefs I'm thinking of the pink brain 🧠 blue brain 🧠 type studies.

Like many things It's a really complex multifaceted thing especially as it involves real people and their lives, it's particularly emotive when you start talking about Normal and abnormal most people don't want to be called abnormal.

I think its very interesting the link between autism and other issues like learning difficulties or anxiety. When my son was diagnosed with asd the team said 'anxiety was a sister diagnosis and the two go hand in hand" and his anxiety impacts him so much, but three of my blood relativrs have extreme anxiety that affects their day to day life but no ASD.
Id love to know why. I did see any study about seratonin receptors and autistuc brains but i dont know how to read scientific studies as i am only gcse level so apart from getting there was a measurable difference i didnt get what the difference was or why.
As for trans the language is the same. Its all on a spectrum and self-id is valid etc. I can see why a child learning about their diagnosis would be naturally drawn in. Even rainbow colours have been associated with asd for a long time.

I see the perpetuation of a divide between psychiatric disorders and neuro disorders as the stigma attached to the psychiatric. People still think you can use force of will to cure depression and other mental illnesses because people think the mind is not wholly controlled by the brain somehow. I don't believe in spiritual souls.

Schizophrenia is one of the most well known psychiatric illnesses but there is clear evidence of its neurobiological origin. Please tell me why else disorders in the function of the brain should be categorized as not neurological if not for the stigma. The most legitimate reason is that they are specialized disciplines for doctors. One will deal with physical and motor defecits, the other with behavior and mood. Otherwise I do not think its useful to insist mental illness is no connected to neurology. Why else do neuroscientists research the neurobiology of psychiatric disease?

This link even lists autism as a mental illness. I was diagnosed over 20 years ago and I have never heard this arguement before about it being "this not that" because it is essentially BOTH. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6258037/

As well as stigma attached to mental illness, I think the issue is illness suggests something that should be cured or treated. And that is where the online autism community will come down on you like a ton of bricks. There is nothing wrong, nothing to change, they are perfect. To the extent that even speech and language therapy for children would be considered heretical. And asking for ways to cope with a work situation is met with screams of ablism rather than tips or support. Like with TRAs there is no room for nuance or accepting that others may feel differently about their own autism and associated conditions.

Thank you @Sickoffamilydrama she was an amazing woman and put her long life (died at 98) down to never having married 😆.
@Elephantsparade I was told similar as you about ASD and anxiety but they also linked his ASD with his ADHD, Tourettes, dyslexia and hypermobility saying that they are a family of conditions that are linked and that if you have any of them then you were more likely to have a 2nd the average person and if you had 2 you're more likely to have a 3rd etc. Though noone can explain why it's almost like they discovered a correlation between this group of conditions and then stopped all research into whether there is a causal link and or what any link might be.
I would love to see some proper research done into it and the way these things run in families, though if they did find an ASD gene I'm sure that the it's an identity brigade would be extremely put out

Is it about those with autism having MH issues due to their experiences in society etc?

In my anecdotal evidence of a small subset of 3 (diagnosed autism and mental health issues), this is my observation. One of those people struggled continually and eventually received ASC diagnosis on teens. Other two, diagnosed early. One has struggled continually, particularly in winter, and their world has become smaller and smaller as they avoid social demands to the point that they are now almost housebound.

The other is more unexpected. Unarguably severely autistic. Presents with severe learning difficulties. Pretty much impermeable to social demands to the point of being blissfully unaware. Then lockdown happened, coinciding with puberty, and all the things he loved doing got taken away from him for reasons he cannot understand. First there was rage like we had never seen from him before and then the occasional tics that punctuated his constant chatter snowballed to the point of being utterly debilitating. He is extremely anxious, these days.

@wtfisgoingonn thanks for this. That makes a lot more sense.

I was told similar as you about ASD and anxiety but they also linked his ASD with his ADHD, Tourettes, dyslexia and hypermobility saying that they are a family of conditions that are linked and that if you have any of them then you were more likely to have a 2nd the average person and if you had 2 you're more likely to have a 3rd etc. Though noone can explain why it's almost like they discovered a correlation between this group of conditions and then stopped all research into whether there is a causal link and or what any link might be.
I would love to see some proper research done into it and the way these things run in families, though if they did find an ASD gene I'm sure that the it's an identity brigade would be extremely put out

Dr Jessica Eccles is doing research into the link between hypermobility and neurodiversity .

Both my son and daughter are autistic.

Both have co- morbid anxiety and my son has significant depression. There are other co-morbidities, hypermobility, dyslexia and SPD which is more significant for my daughter than for my son.

Mental health services definitely think that autism and anxiety and depression go hand in hand such that CAMHS in many areas 'do not routinely treat children with an autism diagnosis for anxiety and depression' because they believe it is caused by the neuro diversity not by factors that can be addressed within their service.

In reality there are very few professionals who really understand these issues. I have been trying for some time to find a private psychologist to help my son manage his crippling anxiety and depression with no luck.

Autistic children are vulnerable to this ideology because it provides an explanation for differences. My daughter meets nearly all of the criteria for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, the sensory issues being the cause. I have been viciously attacked online by self proclaimed autistics who hate autism parents who have a different opinion from them and question this ideology.

It's a mess. These kids are vulnerable and have no where to turn.

When my son was diagnosed with asd the team said 'anxiety was a sister diagnosis and the two go hand in hand"

This really pisses me off because while it's true to a certain extent, professionals who say this are often doing so with a subtext of "so we're not going to even bother trying to treat it".

This really pisses me off because while it's true to a certain extent, professionals who say this are often doing so with a subtext of "so we're not going to even bother trying to treat it"

Correct, what is worth is that there is no mental health provision at all for children with autism AND anxiety and depression in my area.

This has been confirmed by the CCG. I believe it is discriminatory because it denied access to a service due to a protected characteristic.

It's no wonder autistic kids are vulnerable to the trans agenda when they are being denied mental health care when needed, I think this is what really gets my back up when i hear trans people, particularly non binary trans people complaining that they are discriminated against in connection to access to health care. Well autistic children are but no one cares about that!

I had the same issue in adult services — they told me they don't treat people with ASD. I pointed out that it was direct discrimination under the equality act, went to PALS and got a second opinion from a doctor in the team covering a different part of the city, and magically my mental illness was suddenly treatable :-/

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

I had the same issue in adult services — they told me they don't treat people with ASD. I pointed out that it was direct discrimination under the equality act, went to PALS and got a second opinion from a doctor in the team covering a different part of the city, and magically my mental illness was suddenly treatable :-/

Terrible. This is what focus should be on not saying that a person who doesn't conform with gender stereotypes, often due to sensory processing issues, as in the case of my daughter must be a boy in the wrong body.

It shocks me when I see that camhs are even worse-funded and more limited than adult services because I know how appalling adult services have become.

Well in our area there is a complete gap in camhs provision for 16-18's. No CAMHS post 16 & can't access adult services till 18. The only way to get care between those ages is with a hospital admission.

This is for all children.

It's shocking. Yet we are led to believe that the only vulnerable children are those with gender dysphoria. Complete lies.

That's crap — I was shifted to adult services age 16 (both CMHT and inpatient), and though their setup obviously wasn't organised with me in mind, they did at least take me on, recognising that I didn't have other options. TBH I think for a lot of adolescents, adult-focused services can do a better job than child-focused ones, in some ways, though obviously it's not ideal.

Thank you for that @BitMuch - it answers a few questions that I've had for years. Ds1 has a dual diagnosis of adhd and asd and is also hypermobile. It's always struck me that the extreme hyperactivity and inattention he exhibited as a small child must have the same cause as his constant need to touch everything at the time. Medicating his adhd merely took the edge off the hyperactivity but his ability to communicate verbally really took off - he had language and could read fluently but couldn't tell us anything and ended up screaming, constantly, presumably with frustration.

Schizophrenia is one of the most well known psychiatric illnesses but there is clear evidence of its neurobiological origin. Please tell me why else disorders in the function of the brain should be categorized as not neurological if not for the stigma. The most legitimate reason is that they are specialized disciplines for doctors. One will deal with physical and motor defecits, the other with behavior and mood. Otherwise I do not think its useful to insist mental illness is no connected to neurology. Why else do neuroscientists research the neurobiology of psychiatric disease?

I don't think you can assume that all mental illnesses are like schizophrenia, though. In fact it seems to be one of a very small group of mental illnesses that are fairly consistent and identifiable across cultures.

It's not at all clear that applies to most mental illness.

Is it not at all clear that all mental illnesses arise from the brain or some effect on it? The various disorders are definitely different from each other but I mainly object to the idea that mental disorders aren't neurological. What are they then? Moral failings?

I don't for a minute believe Lesbians are hitching our cause to anything. Get the "L" out!