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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Poll in Scotland. Please write to MSPs and share.

70 replies

Cismyfatarse · 12/09/2021 08:32

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-out-of-step-on-trans-law-says-poll-h068jwqz9?shareToken=2130a470080c4af4112359e13e0ee20e

Seemingly Nicola Sturgeon and Patrick Harvie have spent too much time listening to the glitter family in their bunkers. Their scramble to show how progressive they are turns out to be really rather unpopular.

As we are in real danger of this dangerous nonsense becoming law in Scotland, please can I ask that you share this far and wide.

OP posts:
terryleather · 12/09/2021 18:07

And for being very, very smug.

Well you know what they say Arabella, "accusations are admissions"...

OatcakeCravings · 12/09/2021 18:18

Can the Scottish Parliament pass this bill? Would all of the changes that self id requires be devolved issues or would it be a Westminster issue and if you were changed your gender in Scotland would it be valid in England if you moved for eg?

I don’t know at all, I’m just thinking out loud!

MiladyBerserko · 12/09/2021 18:28

Not sure oatcakes. It possibly being a reserved issue has just been raised.

I think that would be a fine opportunity for NS to rage at BJ at not getting permission from 'Westminster' etc.

It certainly would make the whole debate go nuclear but not sure if it would be a good thing.

Artichokeleaves · 12/09/2021 18:31

Interesting that some are seeing this topic heading and feeling it's urgent to try and discourage women for talking to their MSPs about retaining their rights.

Shut up women and look at the squirrel and worry about other people and just do nothing until you're second class humans in law and male born people have rights you don't.

I find it very interesting that anyone would expect a female voter to give a flying fuck about any other political matter at all once that has been achieved.

OatcakeCravings · 12/09/2021 18:39

MiladyBerserko, if it is a reserved issue and they can’t get it through the Scot Parl it would suit Nicola rather well when you think about it? She gets to stoke more division, makes Scotland look all inclusive and cuddly and accuse Boris et al. If being nasty while simultaneously not passing a batshit law.

Then again the Hate Crimes Bill went through and it was an awful piece of legislation….so probably not!

MiladyBerserko · 12/09/2021 18:49

Yes, I know what you mean oatcakes and I used to think that NS was supporting this as political opportunity but now I think she is a true believer.

But if she is doing it because she sees what happens to heretics, then it could work in her favour. Except then a lot of people would then be grateful for the Union and it would likely get a lot of attention. She wouldn't be happy about the first and not sure about the second, the Denton's strategy says no but she never dodges a scrap with BJ.

KimikosNightmare · 12/09/2021 18:55

@terryleather

As if ploppers and wokescolds weren't tiresome enough on these boards, we're now to be "toryscolded" too by those who presume to know how those on FWR choose to vote...Hmm
Yes, because posters on FWR, never, ever say how left wing they are and how frightful it is that they might have to consider voting Tory on this one issue.
KimikosNightmare · 12/09/2021 19:00

@Artichokeleaves

Interesting that some are seeing this topic heading and feeling it's urgent to try and discourage women for talking to their MSPs about retaining their rights.

Shut up women and look at the squirrel and worry about other people and just do nothing until you're second class humans in law and male born people have rights you don't.

I find it very interesting that anyone would expect a female voter to give a flying fuck about any other political matter at all once that has been achieved.

No one has said what you have just made up. Write all you like. It's just a pity some of you didn't stop to think about what you were voting for in the past.

I find it very interesting that anyone would expect a female voter to not care about the wider political scene than this one issue.

Cismyfatarse · 12/09/2021 19:01

Does dropping GRA reform wipe the slate on everything else?

No. It doesn't. And I will also oppose the next independence referendum, the new policy ending protest at Holyrood, the crap education system (am a teacher).

But, in this moment, on this board, I am trying to rally the feminist troops a bit more.

Next year, I will be back fighting the next slice of lunacy.

OP posts:
Artichokeleaves · 12/09/2021 19:03

I find it very interesting that anyone would expect a female voter to not care about the wider political scene than this one issue.

Then I'd suggest giving it a little more thought.

Waitwhat23 · 12/09/2021 19:41

There's loads of things I disagree with the SNP on. The scales have well and truly fallen from my eyes. But this is a sex and gender issue, being discussed on the sex and gender board. If you don't want to write to your MSP's about this issue, then don't - the OP isn't an edict.

Politically, I don't know where I stand - I can't say I feel that any one party speaks to me and I found it very difficult to vote at the last elections. I now very much regret voting SNP in the past but that's surely why elections are every 4 years - so that people can change their minds.

MiladyBerserko · 12/09/2021 19:45

I have no idea why you are going after people for past voting history? Weren't you a Labour voter up until recently? Shall I accuse you of supporting Blair's actions in Iraq and the dodgy dossier?

Many, many women and men have left the SNP and many non members now have no intention of voting for them again, based on this issue alone. I would have thought that would be a good thing for a person who hates the SNP.

What do you want people to do here? Apologise?

Are ex-voters to publicly atone in the village square?

Waitwhat23 · 12/09/2021 19:53

@MiladyBerserko I was going to mention tarring and feathering. Or hairshirts.

I can't say any voter of any party can say that their choice is without issue or poor consequence - Conservative voters are told by posters on this board that they are 'shameful' because of the Tories stance on benefits etc, those who vote Greens are told that their 'middle class privilege' means that they ignore the impact of the policies on people on low incomes, Labour voters are told that the party has moved too far away from it's working class roots, etc etc etc. There's issues with misogny, anti semitism and racism in many of the party's elected representatives. I don't think it's as clear as SNP - bad, other party - good.

MiladyBerserko · 12/09/2021 21:30

Wow, dinner making prevented me from appreciating the Epic post from Bbthornton earlier..

"And that’s me done before I even got started. I didn’t attend the little protest in Edinburgh because I was in two minds about getting involved. But it is clear to me that almost nothing has been learned at all "

  • Erm, a tad patronising?

"Decision made. Count me out, I’m not joining the Gender Critical crusade... in fact I’m deleting my account and know that I certainly won’t be missed and that feeling is well and truly mutual."

  • Best-Flounce-In-History!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ARt9HV9T0w8

terryleather · 12/09/2021 22:42

Well Milady for my own part I've been sitting quietly and contritely, pondering all my political shortcomings as they have been pointed out to me by pompous randoms on FWR.... I've said a couple of Hail Thatchers and a David Cameron and have flicked the "Vs" in the general direction of Sturgeon - am eagerly hoping that might be enough to earn my rehabilitation.

Ehmbeeh · 13/09/2021 06:35

The reforms to the GRA being proposed by the Scot gov are potentially dangerous and harmful for children.

Self identification means legally changing sex by simply making a declaration.
This means an adult body male can legally access children’s spaces where they use toilet facilities, where they dress and undress, where they sleep. Safeguarding protections will not apply. Children are vulnerable by dint of being children. This is unacceptable because the vast majority of crimes against children are committed by men. Let us not forget, the reported cases but due to lack of evidence no charges made which does not mean it did not happen and the unreported.
Part of risk management has been to provide segregated spaces for children with only adult women permitted in that space. At present an adult male bodied person found to be or been in those segregated spaces could find themselves facing a charge of breach of the peace, a lesser charge than what the potential charges could be but none the less a charge and this acts as a deterrent.
Child protection laws and policies have been created based on evidence that proves the need for them. Including self-ID as part of an Act that already gives sufficient rights to people who are transitioning is a dangerous mistake and children will be the ones who suffer.

There are also other considerations, protecting the rights of women, the prevention of discriminatory practice concerning men, the implications that self-ID has for the legal standing of ‘sex’, female and male etc

However the protection of children is paramount and on that basis alone, self-Id must not be written into law.
Anything, any of us can do to prevent it must have our attention.

I also have concerns about the guidelines that were issued to all Local Authority Education Departments in Scotland that are currently being issued to primary and secondary schools. Note, not issued to fee paying schools.
My concerns are many.

Directly or indirectly making a suggestion to a child that there is the possibility that they have been born into the ‘wrong’ body can have a detrimental effect on a child’s healthy developing sense of self because the child starts from the premise that something is potentially wrong. ‘Gender’ is a construct not a scientific fact and there is much confusion about the meaning of ‘Gender’.
The guidelines use the term, ‘recommended’ not ‘required’ regarding informing parents/caregivers of a child’s, as young as 4 years, decisions about identity and pronouns. This is a major departure from child protection practice because keeping secrets are what child abusers rely on.
It is also a step that undermines the parental role and responsibilities, moving towards state control. Research proves that most parents/caregivers are concerned with the best interests of the child so why do these guidelines ignore this? If the term, ‘required’ had been used in the guidelines and a school head had concerns about informing parents because of the suspected reaction then child protection could be called upon to negotiate that situation.

Puberty blockers are another concern as they make the adult infertile and unable to enjoy a full sexual adult relationship. Some of those who have undergone this treatment are no longer remaining silent.

I fear that much of the adult world has been subjected to a process of gaslighting and now our children are undergoing a grooming process. There are a number of theories about the purpose.

There are serious attempts to silence my views as are the men who identify as women who agree with my views. Those that publicly make known that they have had medical surgery and drug treatment, have a gender recognition certificate and do not agree that trans women are women, do not agree with using protected spaces for children and women, receive harsh treatment from many trans ideology followers.

I think it important to state that I believe in the right of transitioned people with a gender recognition certificate in keeping with the current Act 2004, to live the life they choose in peace.

I do not follow any evangelical religion, nor am I right wing, nor am I receiving any form of payment for sharing my views.

Babdoc · 13/09/2021 09:22

anaily, do stop being so faux naive.
“How can a birth certificate be dangerous” indeed.
How about when it lets sex offenders self ID, pretend to be trans, and get a free pass into areas where women and children are undressed and vulnerable.
Already happens, but currently we can arrest them.
How about when it destroys women’s sports by allowing men to compete. Men who retain all the advantages of male puberty, whatever their testosterone level. Already happens.
How about when it lets intact male rapists into women’s prisons. Already happens.
The GRA needs repealed, not thrown wide open with self ID. It is already being abused - it is a complete fiction. Men cannot change sex. And they should not be permitted in women’s single sex areas, whatever their “gender identity”. TRAs need to campaign for third spaces, or acceptance by their own sex, not pass laws that ride a coach and horses through women’s rights.

Selkiesarereal · 13/09/2021 09:28

So far my letter writing has been ignored but this time I will include the list ones as well and maybe one will respond but a least it will get the message across to opposition parties which might do something.

midgemagneto · 13/09/2021 09:42

If a birth certificate has no power , then it would not be created in the first place and changing it would not be of interest to anyone

RedDogsBeg · 13/09/2021 13:04

@midgemagneto

If a birth certificate has no power , then it would not be created in the first place and changing it would not be of interest to anyone
Precisely. As usual the TRA and their allies arguments contradict themselves at every turn.
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