James/Lisa Shupe on autogynephilia.

[Signalbox]

Interesting Benjamin Boyce interview with James/Lisa Shupe discussing the difficulties of accessing medical care for autogynephilia.

Shupe talks about their (quite significant) struggle with autogynephilia and coming to terms with the idea that they are not and would never be female, and the difficulties of getting the treatment that they needed once they told doctors that they didn't "identify" as a woman. Shupe says that they have been forced to lie and say that they identify as female to get appropriate medical care.

The total lack of emphasis on really understanding sex dysphoria specifically, and identity problems more generally, including the normal ones many young people deal with, really stands out to me.

When people talk about being kind, and acceptance, I struggle to reconcile it with even a basic level of curiosity about the cause or origin of the person's feelings.

** reconcile it with the lack of curiosity...

Let’s not forget the Guardian gave a celebratory column to Shupe for becoming the USA’s first “legally genderless person”:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/i-am-first-official-genderless-person-united-states

Wrong side of history my arse…

I would distinguish those 2 states but this is one of many reasons that IANAL.

I look to the Guardian to invite Phoenix to write a column about being the first genderless/non-binary adult who continued puberty blockers into adulthood to achieve this state.

Phoenix, 18, was assigned female at birth but has identified as gender non-binary (not entirely/exclusively male or female) since age 5. Phoenix uses they/them pronouns, has short hair and wears gender-neutral clothes. When Phoenix was 11, they began puberty and became extremely distressed by development of their breast buds and anxious about menstruation commencing soon. This prompted Phoenix and their parents to ask Phoenix’s paediatrician for puberty blockers to halt puberty and stop further pubertal development. At that time, Phoenix told their paediatrician they did not want to discontinue the use of such blockers in the future, as they did not want to go through any puberty. [continues]

Notini L, Earp BD, Gillam L, et al. Forever young? The ethics of ongoing puberty suppression for non-binary adults. J Med Ethics. 2020;46(11):743-752. doi:10.1136/medethics-2019-106012

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7656150/

It's a thoughtful discussion. And again, it's made me very acutely aware that I'm not a specialist bioethicist.

Although I have sympathy for this persons poor mental health and the lack of proper logical and compassionate medical care. I cannot forget the damage that this person has done to all women.

For all said I'm grateful to the interviewer to give a window into a sexual disorder that even people who are suffering from have no understanding of.

His non binary status (now recanted) has watered down and muddied the reality of the word Woman.
He has been allowed in this interview to show what the reality of AGP is and its horrifying for everyone involved.

My main sympathy is always for the people you never hear from, the Trans Widows. What horror has his poor wife been through. It seems to me she has been, for the majority of her marriage/life his carer and I think even now he sees her as a tool to be used in his life.

people you never hear from, the Trans Widows. What horror has his poor wife been through. It seems to me she has been, for the majority of her marriage/life his carer and I think even now he sees her as a tool to be used in his life

As long as women are only recognised in the role of supporting actors or sources of validation for others then we continue to be invisible and to create injury and even outrage if we assert personal needs or the need for acknowledgement.

It would be brilliant to hear from Shupe's wife and her version of events. I wonder if she knew of the homosexual hook ups.

Fascinating interview, which raises many questions. Has a female ever been diagnosed with AGP?

Who was it who first told men who wish to present in a feminine way that they should take cross sex hormones & BE women? (Why not just present in a feminine way & be effeminate men?

If this is the person I think it is, I read a long thing by them saying they had been manipulated, they now thought the legal thing was a big mistake, and sex is a thing.

I think it was this
www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/10/i-was-americas-first-non-binary-person-it-was-all-a-sham/

And I think they did a good thing after being reported on widely over the non binary thing. To actually go public with the fact it was a mistake and what happened along the way in terms of 'affirmative' approach.

I look to the Guardian to invite Phoenix to write a column about being the first genderless/non-binary adult who continued puberty blockers into adulthood to achieve this state

Phoenix is not a real person. This is a hypothetical case being used to discuss the ethics of ongoing puberty suppression into adulthood, in anticipation of such requests becoming likely from non-binary people.

Some of the people sucked into this stuff are very troubled, and don't have a lot of capacity to make good judgments about these ideologies. They've been let down by the people who are supposed to be keeping watch.

@NiceGerbil

If this is the person I think it is, I read a long thing by them saying they had been manipulated, they now thought the legal thing was a big mistake, and sex is a thing.

I think it was this
www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/10/i-was-americas-first-non-binary-person-it-was-all-a-sham/

And I think they did a good thing after being reported on widely over the non binary thing. To actually go public with the fact it was a mistake and what happened along the way in terms of 'affirmative' approach.

Haven't been able to watch the video in the op but this link is really interesting. I don't think I'd realised this had happened: Within months, I scored another historic win after the Department of Vital Records issued me a brand new birth certificate from Washington, D.C., where I was born. A local group called Whitman-Walker Health had gotten my sex designation on my birth certificate switched to “unknown.” It was the first time in D.C. history a birth certificate had been printed with a sex marker other than male or female.

It's so so disturbing how women are being used as props in disturbed men's fantasy lives. And we're not even allowed to say no, or talk about it openly. It is worrying that AGP is being erased as a diagnosis just because it doesn't fit the "gender identity" narrative. Trans activists don't want AGPs to exist and they don't want women talking about it and what better way than to erase both the diagnosis and treatment options for people trying to get help.

You tube channel You're Kiddin' Right has some interesting videos on this topic and specifically on Shupe.

[quote Signalbox]Interesting Benjamin Boyce interview with James/Lisa Shupe discussing the difficulties of accessing medical care for autogynephilia.

Shupe talks about their (quite significant) struggle with autogynephilia and coming to terms with the idea that they are not and would never be female, and the difficulties of getting the treatment that they needed once they told doctors that they didn't "identify" as a woman. Shupe says that they have been forced to lie and say that they identify as female to get appropriate medical care.

[/quote] I ended up not watching this vid... and instead watched the first BB interview with Shupe, and a small bit of Pt 2! Maybe tonight I'll watch Pt 2 in full.

"coming to terms with the idea that they are not and would never be female" - I'm not sure what you're saying / implying. From what I have seen I got the impression that it was more less about "OMG, I can never be a female!" it was more "OMG I'm not even sure I want to be female - I'm a man. Why was I pushed towards transition when the reality is I required mental heath support related to physical and sexual abuse as a child, PTSD in the army, massive exposure to extreme porn in the army, and whatever other issues I have rattling round my head?"

It's so so disturbing how women are being used as props in disturbed men's fantasy lives. And we're not even allowed to say no, or talk about it openly.

It is worrying that AGP is being erased as a diagnosis just because it doesn't fit the "gender identity" narrative. Trans activists don't want AGPs to exist and they don't want women talking about it and what better way than to erase both the diagnosis and treatment options for people trying to get help.

Just a heads up to anyone thinking of reading James Shupe's blog/substack, its NSFW.
There is a pornographic photo which includes his wife about halfway down the page, and an account of sexual coercion in their marriage.

''My wife reluctantly obliged my paraphilic fantasies on these occasions because she feared the alternative scenario. Me divorcing her. Or me going out to places such as adult theaters and having men indulge them, something that I've frequently done despite the high risk of getting HIV or other sexually transmitted diseases.''

I really can't get on board with feting this person. Its difficult to talk about without breaking the forum guidelines.

I really can't get on board with feting this person. Its difficult to talk about without breaking the forum guidelines

Who is feting them?

I've just watched this interview. I have a lot of sympathy and compassion for Shupe. It is a hard watch. It really really highlights why public awareness of AGP is important I think. I do, of course, also have sympathy and compassion for others connected with this situation, Shupe's wife especially. I think the distinction between AGP on the one hand and gender dysphoria on the other and the idea that a person can suffer both is not often mentioned. This is a person in pain and a person not asking for validation but rather help. I think Boyce of Reason has done some good work in bringing different voices into the public consciousness. I don't always have to agree with everything BB says, but I think the work is a valuable contribution to the GC movement.

@Thelnebriati

Just a heads up to anyone thinking of reading James Shupe's blog/substack, its NSFW. There is a pornographic photo which includes his wife about halfway down the page, and an account of sexual coercion in their marriage.

''My wife reluctantly obliged my paraphilic fantasies on these occasions because she feared the alternative scenario. Me divorcing her. Or me going out to places such as adult theaters and having men indulge them, something that I've frequently done despite the high risk of getting HIV or other sexually transmitted diseases.''

I really can't get on board with feting this person. Its difficult to talk about without breaking the forum guidelines.

@Theinebriati I am with you.

Shupe has been heavily criticised by Karen (You Kiddin' Right) Davis for talking about the coercion of his wife, stuff that he brought up in interview. Her zero tolerance attitude to him and his affliction vis a vis how he treated his wife (a stance I agree with) has led her to criticise commentators like BB and Arty Morty for giving Shupe any sympathy. AM and BB have joined forces to attack Karen, accusing her of "breaking alliances" or some such and threatening to sue her; and now Shupe has threatened to sue her for mentioning his wife, when she has basically done nothing more than repeat and comment on Shupe's own words.

I love Karen Davis. That is all.

So, a young girl had short hair (Jean Seberg anyone?) and gender neutral clothes so the parents asked for puberty blockers. Short hair and jeans, hoodies, tees is now indicative of not being female!

This is the biggest load of bs I have ever heard in my life. Do you yo-yo from being male to female if your hair grows again.? Then get it cut, male again. Gosh, some idiots have gained prominence and undeserved influence with the sh1te they are promulgating. It is pure, unadulterated sh1te.

I know it is about that Shupe person, but that bit about what reasons those parents had for saying their child was not a girl and putting then the girl on puberty blockers is beyond belief. i

Karen is right on this. The wife is 'the invisible woman' to the dudes. I'm reading that bit about Shupe talking about the risks taken wrt HIV and sexually transmitted diseases. Shupe can take all the chances Shupe wants to become ill from any of those diseases. Shupe's own actions leading to consequences for Shupe. I'm all for you takes your chances, don't go whinging about it.

Where Shupe should be taken to book (and exposes Shupe to be a f*cker) is if Shupe decided to pass that risk onto someone else. Was it a crime at one stage to knowingly infecting someone with HIV?

@Cailleach1

Karen is right on this. The wife is 'the invisible woman' to the dudes. I'm reading that bit about Shupe talking about the risks taken wrt HIV and sexually transmitted diseases. Shupe can take all the chances Shupe wants to become ill from any of those diseases. Shupe's own actions leading to consequences for Shupe. I'm all for you takes your chances, don't go whinging about it.

Where Shupe should be taken to book (and exposes Shupe to be a f*cker) is if Shupe decided to pass that risk onto someone else. Was it a crime at one stage to knowingly infecting someone with HIV?

It seems to me to be clear that Shupe has done many despicable things in his life, and that some if not all of them are likely to be down to his upbringing, the abuse he was on the end of, and where that lead him.

I don't see him as someone who is claiming to be anything special - he seems to be accepting of the fact that he is a bit of a mess and a very flawed human being.

I can only admire his bravery for standing up and speaking out, and be grateful that he does. But no, I don't like him, admire him or think that he deserves any credit other than for the very specific positive things he does.

His wife must be somewhere on the "angel" to "complete fool" spectrum.