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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Erasure of 'the Ladies'

77 replies

BaronMunchausen · 09/09/2021 12:11

I saw this sign in a pub at the weekend. The Ladies replaced by "gender neutral", Gents untouched. Anyone can go into what used to be the Ladies'. How common is this now?

Erasure of 'the Ladies'
OP posts:
ScholesPanda · 09/09/2021 16:19

In my experience this seems to be where every aspect of the debate is heading- that anything for women is to be re-purposed for anyone who isn't a non-trans man.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/09/2021 16:56

@ScholesPanda

In my experience this seems to be where every aspect of the debate is heading- that anything for women is to be re-purposed for anyone who isn't a non-trans man.
What's yours is mine, what's mine's my own.

*Where 'mine' is understood as default male. Hmm

MarshaBradyo · 09/09/2021 17:00

That is so bad.

Why do men continuously get this protection and not us.

ISpyCobraKai · 09/09/2021 17:02

So it's basically men's toilets unless you ask, and I live in Scotland soooo...
Won't be going there.

DdraigGoch · 09/09/2021 17:05

Anyone in NI fancy popping in there and saying "Excuse me, I'm lost, I can't find the Ladies' toilet"?

zenthoughtsonlythanks · 09/09/2021 17:18

Women should boycott the pub!!
We should not be paying to put up with this shit, and someone in NI needs to take them to court.

FindTheTruth · 09/09/2021 17:20

It's a 21st century urinary leash because how many of us want a row about needing a toilet?

CharlieParley · 09/09/2021 17:21

It's unclear if it's all ladies toilets or just one. If it's just one then the gents on that floor should also be made neutral, if it's all like you mentioned then it's discrimination.

If the gents has urinals, then making them mixed-sex too will still discriminate against women on the basis of sex. (Just in case that needs spelled out, it's because we are not built to use them). If the new mixed-sex gents don't have sanitary bins, then it's still discrimination against women on the basis of their sex. Of course, the contracts for sanitary bins tend to be expensive, so they're unlikely to be placed in the former gents in many places.

jellyfrizz · 09/09/2021 17:38

Why can't they be single sex AND gender neutral? i.e. you use the toilet for your sex no matter what your gender is.

Artichokeleaves · 09/09/2021 17:47

We have the mens toilets where male people like to have only other males present, and the mens toilets where male people like to have female people present.

What females want? (And need, and require for inclusion and so on and so forth) Well fuck that, because males want stuff.

They really should be passing out handmaids head gear at the door.

ArabellaScott · 09/09/2021 17:47

My friend in Bristol says the Unicorn only has men's and unisex.

ISpyCobraKai · 09/09/2021 17:54

This whole thing makes me feel horrified, and, my, yes, blue haired, tattooed, pierced 20yr old feels the same.
(As an aside, why do people judge the blue haired thing, it's put me off going along to GC events, whether on my on or with Dd)

Thelnebriati · 09/09/2021 17:57

Its concerning that so many businesses care so little about breaking the equality laws.

IvyTwines2 · 09/09/2021 18:10

@ISpyCobraKai

This whole thing makes me feel horrified, and, my, yes, blue haired, tattooed, pierced 20yr old feels the same. (As an aside, why do people judge the blue haired thing, it's put me off going along to GC events, whether on my on or with Dd)
Regarding the blue and pink, very artificial-looking hair thing, I think it's the association with the anime cartoon avatars that so often accompany death and rape threats towards women, or that oft-retweeted meme of the blue-haired anime girl aiming a gun with the line 'shut the fuck up, T*RF'. It's a colour which, along with the big septum ring, often signal the wearer has a particular set of beliefs.
ISpyCobraKai · 09/09/2021 18:24

She has a septum ring too and is into anime.
That doesn't make her a woke idiot.

Obviously I understand that outwardly she may look a certain way, but it doesn't mean she's not a sensible, thinking, decent 20yr old.
In all honesty, although I've been following these threads for a while, and couldn't agree more, it's only recently I've realised my Dd is possibly judged badly and I think that's a shame, especially since she's going to be fully around the "woke folk".

Artichokeleaves · 09/09/2021 19:13

It is a natural learning curve that how you choose to present yourself and what fashions belong to which groups is inevitably going to indicate messages to others whether you agree with those messages or not.

If I turn up somewhere in a twinset, pearls and a head scarf for example: probably no one would notice in Tescos but at work people would certainly read associated characteristics into it as I have chosen to dress in a known style.

Mumteedum · 09/09/2021 19:17

@GertrudeKerfuffle

For fuck's sake Angry
👍
TooBigForMyBoots · 09/09/2021 19:25

I'm not the most observant of people (I never noticed the small print!), but I did not see any other toilets. Or signs: this one isveryprominent as you come in.

It's Lavery's, a large bar complex that is decades old. There are numerous Ladies toilets. The gender neutral toilets have been signposted at the door for a few years now. I thought it was so their trans clientele had somewhere to go, away from the Ladies and the Gents.

NiceGerbil · 09/09/2021 19:40

Loads of places have done this and it's been in place for ages.

Including our tube station fgs

There in men's, unisex, and accessible which is unisex.

ISpyCobraKai · 09/09/2021 19:53

@Artichokeleaves
Or she'd be accepted if she was at a GC gathering with me.
She's 20, she doesn't need a uniform, she can express herself however she wants and its a shame she should have to consider changing now because of her beliefs which have absolutely nothing to do with how she presents herself.
Scaring off 20yr old GC young adults by judging their appearance is not the way to go.

LaetitiaASD · 09/09/2021 20:03

@jellyfrizz

Why can't they be single sex AND gender neutral? i.e. you use the toilet for your sex no matter what your gender is.
100%
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/09/2021 20:04

Well, this is life, innit. Fashions send messages about what fashion tribe you're in. I've stopped dyimg my hair blue, too. Partially because I didn't like the steep uptick in sexual "approaches" (bloke asked me if I'd like to go back to his place while I was on public transport taking my child to primary school ), but also because of this stuff. It's upsetting (I loved my blue hair), but there it is.

Oh, and I found out my favourite hair dye manufacturer was praising the exploitation of child drag queens.

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/09/2021 20:17

Anyone in NI fancy popping in there and saying "Excuse me, I'm lost, I can't find the Ladies' toilet"?

Although not well signed (I had to ask the first time I went in post refurb), the Ladies Toilet is through a door about 5 steps to the right of the picture. On the ground floor.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 09/09/2021 20:38

@TooBigForMyBoots

Anyone in NI fancy popping in there and saying "Excuse me, I'm lost, I can't find the Ladies' toilet"?

Although not well signed (I had to ask the first time I went in post refurb), the Ladies Toilet is through a door about 5 steps to the right of the picture. On the ground floor.

Oh well thats good then
Artichokeleaves · 09/09/2021 21:14

[quote ISpyCobraKai]@Artichokeleaves
Or she'd be accepted if she was at a GC gathering with me.
She's 20, she doesn't need a uniform, she can express herself however she wants and its a shame she should have to consider changing now because of her beliefs which have absolutely nothing to do with how she presents herself.
Scaring off 20yr old GC young adults by judging their appearance is not the way to go.[/quote]
No one's scaring anyone off and yes, obviously everyone can express themselves how they want.

The point I was making is not personal criticism of your daughter, just that the reality is that choices around dress and presentation do send messages and make associations to groups, and many people will make assumptions.