Welsh Government is following Scotland's anti-woman lead.

[Olderbadger1]

Welsh Government is ideologically captured and seemingly intent on ending women's sex-based rights.

Their LGBTQ+ Action Plan is essentially a commitment to self-id and to an affirmation-only approach to gender non-conforming children. It's been written by Stonewall and their allies. Alternative views - from LGB people or from women generally - have been excluded. As with the previous Trans Action Plan, there is no EIA.

Welsh women have launched a 'Let's talk about Sex' campaign against this shitshow.
merchedcymru.wales/2021/08/31/lets-talk-about-sex/

It's genuinely frightening.

It's worse than I realised...

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/how-independent-is-the-lgbtq-action?

I read the glinner substack earlier. I'll be writing to my MP and encouraging others to do so.

Where are other LGB group reps on the panel?

Those tweets the panel members have posted though, absolutely hateful, (and the puberty blockers one fml!) they shouldn't be advising anyone in Government.

It's so embarrassing for the Welsh government. Any pretence of neutrality out of the window. Anyone who hasn't expressed solidarity with transgender ideology excluded from the consultation. Makes Wales look like a pathetic little tinpot state and will make Jane Hutt and Jeremy Miles look the pathetic panderers they are once it's all exposed in the international press. Wales deserves better than this.

@Dwrcegin

I read the glinner substack earlier. I'll be writing to my MP and encouraging others to do so.

Where are other LGB group reps on the panel?

Those tweets the panel members have posted though, absolutely hateful, (and the puberty blockers one fml!) they shouldn't be advising anyone in Government.

The Welsh government has totally refused to talk to LGBA Cymru. I know people in it. They've contacted Hutt, Drakeford and Miles over and over again and been rebuffed every time. There are moles in the Sennedd who are reporting that correspondence and contacts challenging Stonewall are being quietly 'disappeared' by junior and senior assistants. There's a scandal brewing.

Lesbian Labour don't like the plan either it seems...

"The Welsh Government Action Plan for LGBTQ+ people starts with an acknowledgement that this is not one community…but then proceeds to treat us as one. The refusal to consult with LGBA Cymru or Merched Cymru has ensured that no voice representing same-sex attracted Lesbians was heard.
We at Lesbian Labour do not support this Plan and see it as divisive both for Lesbians and for women and girls whose rights have not been respected throughout the document."

merchedcymru.wales/.../lesbian-labour-rejects-wg.../

I've just had a reply from Welsh Government to my FOI request about the 'hate crime' clause in the consultation document.

'Information not held' in reply to all 5 of my questions.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_about_the_lgbtq_acti?nocache=incoming-1869408

That should have said 'hate speech' not 'hate crime'.

Thanks FOIrequester. Just popped over to WhatDoTheyKnow to check... it's outrageous that they can make these threatening statements without any context or explanation. So those responding to the consultation can't know if they are falling foul of any (imaginary? real?) legislation, or what will happen if they do. Chilling. I am so pissed off with WG. And extra pissed off that they can get away with this.

So depressing. I really think a lot of it is being led from Cardiff. Other parts of Wales are invisible to them I think.

Other parts of Wales definitely Earthsight... and lesbians, and women, and detransitioners, and anyone who doesn't go along with the ideology.

I was heartened to see several bunches of suffragette ribbons in my local one-horse town in mid Wales last week. Would love to know who put them up. The Welsh Government are an embarrassment.

@Olderbadger1

Thanks FOIrequester. Just popped over to WhatDoTheyKnow to check... it's outrageous that they can make these threatening statements without any context or explanation. So those responding to the consultation can't know if they are falling foul of any (imaginary? real?) legislation, or what will happen if they do. Chilling. I am so pissed off with WG. And extra pissed off that they can get away with this.

I'm think there could be a different interpretation. The first part of my request was for: "References to all relevant legislation regarding “hate speech” about gender identity which will be applied in the context of this consultation."

They have replied 'Information not held'. At the end of the response they mention the rewording of the consultation document, which now refers to some specific legislation and an EHRC guidance document.

“Respondents are reminded that the right to freedom of expression is a qualified right and there are specific offences in relation to hate crime created by, for example, the Public Order Act 1986 and the Malicious Communications Act 1988. The Equality and Human Rights Commission have produced guidance on issues relating to freedom of expression and where this may be restricted, the guidance is available here: 20150318foelegalframeworkguidancerevisedfinal.pdf (equalityhumanrights.com). Please ensure that any response you make to the consultation is lawful.”

If they are intending to apply this legislation, to 'hate speech' about gender identity, I don't think 'Information not held' is the correct response. The correct response should have been to refer me to the newly reworded consultation document, since they do hold this information.

Having read through that EHRC document, though, I don't think any of that legislation can be applied to hate speech about gender identity (which is not a protected characteristic). So their response might just mean that the 'hate speech' clause doesn't actually apply to gender identity because it doesn't appear in the legislation.

I think I'll have to ask them to clarify this.

You are a patient and determined soul FOIrequester. Regardless of how one interprets this, Welsh Government do seem incapable of transparency or integrity on this topic.
Good luck with getting some sense out of them for the next round!

I agree. Welsh Labour and Drakeford are a disgrace.

Merched Cymru, LGB Alliance Cymru, Lesbian Labour & Labour Women's Declaration (supported by WHRC) have organised a rally on the Senedd steps on 14 September at 12.00.

I'm making my banner now. Please say hello if any of you are going too.

@Olderbadger1

Merched Cymru, LGB Alliance Cymru, Lesbian Labour & Labour Women's Declaration (supported by WHRC) have organised a rally on the Senedd steps on 14 September at 12.00.

I'm making my banner now. Please say hello if any of you are going too.

Thanks for posting this! I can't believe I haven't heard from it before, I am following Merched Cymru - they perhaps need to put out another post on it, on facebook and twitter, because if they have already I missed it!

Damn it. When you think 'I'll go to that', then realise that if you did and were spotted by certain people you'd probably lose your job. Why has it come to this?

@GrolliffetheDragon

Damn it. When you think 'I'll go to that', then realise that if you did and were spotted by certain people you'd probably lose your job. Why has it come to this?

Indeed. That is why this is so worrying. Although I'm not sure how easy it would be to actually sack someone after attending this, the fact that it's a common fear that's keeping women from protesting is not a good reflection where we are as a society, especially on women's rights.

@GrolliffetheDragon

Damn it. When you think 'I'll go to that', then realise that if you did and were spotted by certain people you'd probably lose your job. Why has it come to this?

I think, following the Maya Forstater ruling, they might find it very difficult to sack you for attending a rally to support the status quo. I can't go, OlderBadger, but I know at least two women who are. But Merched Cymru need a decent turnout.

@FOIrequester You may have noticed already, but there's another FOI request in on the revised warning (or do I mean threat?) in according to Whatdotheyknow. There's also one on the original warnings in the consultation info which I'm not sure has been published yet. It wasn't through WDTK. Reference number is ATISN-15409. I'll try and attach pdfs to this post, but I've never done this so no idea whether that will work or not. [It didn't but I have pdfs if you want to see them].

The response to that one is basically the same as yours but the questions take a different tack and were asking for evidence of basis on which the decision to include the warning was made and how civil servants would put it into practice. So, as far as I can see they had no documented rationale for including the original text, had not sought any advice from their Legal Services department or whether referencing 'hate speech' and offences against individuals was appropriate to the context of a public policy consultation exercise, had not considered the effect the warning would have on people who wanted to participate in the consultation. Absolutely 'dim byd'!

I think, following the Maya Forstater ruling, they might find it very difficult to sack you for attending a rally to support the status quo. I can't go, OlderBadger, but I know at least two women who are. But Merched Cymru need a decent turnout.

My life could be made very difficult though, the organisation I work for works closely with the NHS and Welsh Government and we have trans and non-binary clients.

[quote EnfysPreseli]@FOIrequester You may have noticed already, but there's another FOI request in on the revised warning (or do I mean threat?) in according to Whatdotheyknow. There's also one on the original warnings in the consultation info which I'm not sure has been published yet. It wasn't through WDTK. Reference number is ATISN-15409. I'll try and attach pdfs to this post, but I've never done this so no idea whether that will work or not. [It didn't but I have pdfs if you want to see them].

The response to that one is basically the same as yours but the questions take a different tack and were asking for evidence of basis on which the decision to include the warning was made and how civil servants would put it into practice. So, as far as I can see they had no documented rationale for including the original text, had not sought any advice from their Legal Services department or whether referencing 'hate speech' and offences against individuals was appropriate to the context of a public policy consultation exercise, had not considered the effect the warning would have on people who wanted to participate in the consultation. Absolutely 'dim byd'![/quote]
It's beyond a joke, isn't it? My partner and I are trying to work out where we'd like to retire to and my love of Wales draws me in that direction. But the more I discover about its governance, the more tinpot and cronyish and incompetent it seems.

So: "We're having a public consultation, but any member of the public who says anything we take exception to will be arrested. We won't say what might get you nicked, or why, but we won't tolerate whatever it is..."

Can't think of a better way to encourage public participation.

SENEDD RALLY!
In case anyone else has missed the various social media posts from Merched Cymru and would like to come along, the Rally is on the Senedd steps from 12.00-1.30 on Tuesday 14th.

Speakers, a mini choir, banners, jollifications, the amazing Liane Timmerman is stewarding, Sonya Douglas is going to inspire us all, and Mr Menno is coming along on behalf of Lesbian and Gay News. If you haven't heard of him, this one is a classic.

My life could be made very difficult though, the organisation I work for works closely with the NHS and Welsh Government and we have trans and non-binary clients

My employer works closely with the Welsh Government too, but there is no way I am being intimidated out of my democratic right to organise with other women around women's rights.

We really need to stop framing this as our opponents do about trans rights, and start focussing very positively on this being a women's rights issue. Because it is. It is about women, how women experience the differently from men, the threat or potential of violence of men, and the physical differences between men and women. And about what it says about the status of women that we are not allowed to discuss. This is about women and women's experiences and voices and we really need to start centring that.