BBC: Afghans can claim asylum for gender identity (not sex)

[mrsborisjohnson]

Just read this on the BBC:
www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53734793

"They must prove they cannot return to their home country because they fear persecution due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion, gender identity or sexual orientation."

Is this right? So a man could put on a wig and claim he feels like a woman and gain asylum, but a girl who faces being shot in the head for going to school has no claim? Could a woman claim she feels like a man and be granted aslyum to avoid such a fate? Do they even have a concept of 'gender identity' in Afghanistan? What's with all this imposing Western Queer theory on completely different cultures?

Hand in glove:

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1428655005750464518

("Priority" over who?)

To be fair the Taliban are equally bad to both sexes. They’ve been massacring minority men and enslaving the women. So at least the women aren’t being rounded up and shot just for being female like the men are just for being male.

I don't think he would need to put a wig on, just say he is a woman.

Asylum claims fall umder the refugee convention where they relate to race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group.

Both gender or sex can - depending on the context of the country - qualify as a particular social group. So the BBC haven't worded this particularly well - if a woman can show by virtue of her sex she is at risk of harm amounting to persecution she may qualify for asylum.

To be clear, UK is committed to evacuate translators and other Afghans who have worked with the British forces and their families. There is no question of a general humanitarian evacuation, which would entail the movement of most if not all of the population.

Surely that would mean 50% of the Afghan population could claim asylum.

I do think that people in Afghanistan, who are transgender, should be able to claim asylum. It would be good to see some nuance around women being allowed as well, but there is no way that trans people should be taken off that list.

They aren't going to be playing around with identity nonsense they way people do here. I can't imagine there is as much desire to wear a burqa and be stuck indoors as there is in the West to wear frilly underwear and get your nails done - the gender stereotypes and expectations are totally different.

@Touloser

Asylum claims fall umder the refugee convention where they relate to race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group.

Both gender or sex can - depending on the context of the country - qualify as a particular social group. So the BBC haven't worded this particularly well - if a woman can show by virtue of her sex she is at risk of harm amounting to persecution she may qualify for asylum.

Yeah, this is a poor explanation, especially for a piece that's under an "Explainers" header.

That said, the relevant section of the gov.uk site says:

anything else that puts you at risk because of the social, cultural, religious or political situation in your country, for example, your gender, gender identity or sexual orientation

www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/eligibility

Is this right?

No, it's terribly worded by the BBC. Women as a sex class often come under particular social group for the convention

Being transgender is a capital offence under the taliban

Being a woman is shit, but not yet an execution matter in itself

@Jaysmith71

To be clear, UK is committed to evacuate translators and other Afghans who have worked with the British forces and their families. There is no question of a general humanitarian evacuation, which would entail the movement of most if not all of the population.

Yes, and sadly we won't be able to get all of those to safety, let alone put out feelers for who else to evacuate.

"Being transgender is a capital offence under the taliban"

I have yet to see any evidence that the concept of transgenderism has ever crossed their minds. Back in the day, playing cricket, flying a kite or going about the streets female without a chaperone were capital offences.

@MoggyP

Being transgender is a capital offence under the taliban

Being a woman is shit, but not yet an execution matter in itself

I thought TWAW?

The nearest local cultural tradition are the Khaja Sira, the Urdu term for Indian Hirja dancers. The term has traditionally been translated into English as 'eunuch,' and is recognised in Pakistani law since 2018.

But its not something that would get anywhere near the Pakistani Pashtu, and certainly doesn't cross the border into Afghanistan.

The BBC have not worded it badly. They have omitted sex (as though gender identity and sex are interchangeable). Which is incorrect, sex absolutely is a basis for making an asylum claim (though it doesn't even come close to meaning you will be successful in that claim).

@PlanDeRaccordement

To be fair the Taliban are equally bad to both sexes. They’ve been massacring minority men and enslaving the women. So at least the women aren’t being rounded up and shot just for being female like the men are just for being male.

No, they get to be "brides". Do you think they'll get to wear a pretty dress?

Recent reports of a group of Talibs entering a village and demanding food. When it didn't come quickly enough, the women were shot.

@TheWeeDonkey
Are you serious with the brides comment? The women end up as slaves as I stated. Slavery isn’t a fate worse than death. It’s not like any nonTaliban men in Afghanistan are any safer than the nonTaliban women.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@TheWeeDonkey
Are you serious with the brides comment? The women end up as slaves as I stated. Slavery isn’t a fate worse than death. It’s not like any nonTaliban men in Afghanistan are any safer than the nonTaliban women.[/quote]
Whether it's a fate worse than death rather depends on what happens next. If it's being repeatedly raped and beaten before dying from the resulting injuries or in childbirth, maybe a relatively quick death months or years earlier is not the worse option.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@TheWeeDonkey
Are you serious with the brides comment? The women end up as slaves as I stated. Slavery isn’t a fate worse than death. It’s not like any nonTaliban men in Afghanistan are any safer than the nonTaliban women.[/quote]
Being forced to marry means being repeatedly raped for the rest of your life, giving birth without medical assistance, no choice over the number of times you become pregnant, no choice over your own life at all.

The only reason id choose that over death is if I had children to protect.

It’s not like any nonTaliban men in Afghanistan are any safer than the nonTaliban women.

Afghanisani men are allowed to own property and businesses and walk the streets alone, marry more than one wife, meet up in groups, go to the mosque, live a life, what do you mean? Only the Government officials, army etc and some innocent bystanders in war zones that are men have been targetted, the Taliban are not interested in killiing all men.

@Xoxoxoxoxoxox

It’s not like any nonTaliban men in Afghanistan are any safer than the nonTaliban women.

Afghanisani men are allowed to own property and businesses and walk the streets alone, marry more than one wife, meet up in groups, go to the mosque, live a life, what do you mean? Only the Government officials, army etc and some innocent bystanders in war zones that are men have been targetted, the Taliban are not interested in killiing all men.

Well we know that isn’t true, Taliban have been massacring Hazaras ....but only the men. Not the women. And now they’re doing door to door search to execute anyone who collaborated with US and Allies. All the (usually male) interpreters, Afghan army, police, government, journalists, even your list is very long surprised you don’t see the irony in saying “only a, b, c, d , e ,f ,g ...are in danger” like a certain amount of extrajudicial murders is ever acceptable.

gandhara.rferl.org/a/afghanistan-taliban-hazara-massacre/31419659.html

I agree the slavery and death can be about equal. That’s my point.

@Jaysmith71

The nearest local cultural tradition are the Khaja Sira, the Urdu term for Indian Hirja dancers. The term has traditionally been translated into English as 'eunuch,' and is recognised in Pakistani law since 2018.

But its not something that would get anywhere near the Pakistani Pashtu, and certainly doesn't cross the border into Afghanistan.

m.kbr.id/english/03-2017/living_a_double_life_as_a_transgender_woman_in_afghanistan_/89024.html

Unfortunately Plan your point comes across as " well women don't get as bad a deal as men, they get to live." Ignoring the fact that most of them would prefer s quick death to the hell they will have to endure.

I think the reality of assessing risk acknowledges women are at risk. That’s why a group of female robotics students have been helped out, and australia has got 50 mostly women athletes out (Paralympic athletes perhaps)