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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC: Afghans can claim asylum for gender identity (not sex)

54 replies

mrsborisjohnson · 24/08/2021 09:22

Just read this on the BBC:
www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53734793

"They must prove they cannot return to their home country because they fear persecution due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion, gender identity or sexual orientation."

Is this right? So a man could put on a wig and claim he feels like a woman and gain asylum, but a girl who faces being shot in the head for going to school has no claim? Could a woman claim she feels like a man and be granted aslyum to avoid such a fate? Do they even have a concept of 'gender identity' in Afghanistan? What's with all this imposing Western Queer theory on completely different cultures?

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 25/08/2021 03:40

@Jaysmith71

"Being transgender is a capital offence under the taliban"

I have yet to see any evidence that the concept of transgenderism has ever crossed their minds. Back in the day, playing cricket, flying a kite or going about the streets female without a chaperone were capital offences.

That wording no. But gender non conformity, homosexuality. Cross dressing. Anything which hints at being 'different'. Yes.

Incidentally this is interesting.

'The Afghan girls who live as boys'

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15262680

Excerpts;

'Three of her daughters are clothed in white garments and their heads covered with white scarves, but a fourth girl, Mehrnoush, is dressed in a suit and tie. When they get outside, Mehrnoush is no longer a girl but a boy named Mehran.

Azita Rafhat didn't have a son, and to fill the gap and avoid people's taunts for not having a son, she opted for this radical decision. It was very simple, thanks to a haircut and some boyish clothes.

There is even a name for this tradition in Afghanistan - Bacha Posh, or disguising girls as boys.'

'
Many girls disguised as boys can be found in Afghan markets. Some families disguise their daughters as boys so that they can easily work on the streets to feed their families.

Some of these girls who introduce themselves as boys sell things like water and chewing gum. They appear to be aged anywhere between about five and 12. None of them would talk to me about their lives as boys.

Girls brought up as boys do not stay like this all their lives. When they turn 17 or 18 they live life as a girl once again - but the change is not so simple.

Elaha lives in Mazar-e Sharif in northern Afghanistan. She lived as a boy for 20 years because her family didn't have a son and reverted only two years ago when she had to go to university.

However, she does not feel fully female: she says her habits are not girlish and she does not want to get married.

"When I was a kid my parents disguised me as a boy because I didn't have a brother. Until very recently, as a boy, I would go out, play with other boys and have more freedom."

She has returned reluctantly to her gender and says she has done it only because of the social traditions.'

mrsborisjohnson · 25/08/2021 07:09

So no. I think this OP is a bit out of line TBH.
Out of line with what? I'm questioning the wording of the article and its implications, not saying anyone deserves to die or accusing Afghan men as self-identifying en masse to claim asylum. These things were phrased as theoretical questions. The BBC has become so steeped in wokespeak that it's hard to know what anything means anymore, and I wanted to know if 'gender identity' means 'being trans' or 'being female'. If it means 'being female' I find that offensive, particularly in the context of the treatment of women in Afghanistan.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 26/08/2021 04:44

I pointed out that if it were sex then everyone would be eligible. Because men and women and girls and boys are all at risk under that regime.

People can't get out. Even if they have the right papers. Isis k are at the airport. The taleban are not letting people through even with the right paperwork.

I don't think anyone who gets out is going to be sent back by the UK government. Do you? They'd be executed immediately. And how to even get them back? The risk to those trying to get them in would be very high.

And then just hand them over? To be executed?

Yes I do think your OP is out of line.

OhWhyNot · 26/08/2021 11:17

I can’t see the outrage

The outrage is what is happening in Afghanistan. Men are far more likely to be sent by their families to send money home

As much as I support our fight for single sex spaces and would be by many considered a terf to bring in again our fight with theirs just seems to lack awareness

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