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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Crispin Blunt: The press are whipping up a moral panic over transgender pupils

59 replies

ANonnyMice · 20/08/2021 13:39

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2021/08/crispin-blunt-and-sue-pascoe-the-press-are-whipping-up-a-moral-panic-over-transgender-pupils.html

Apparently:
“If any young person, including a transgender young person, is concerned about sharing a room with others, you could consider making alternative arrangements, including giving them their own room where appropriate. If any young person voices a concern, this should be considered – responses should be reasonable and proportionate, taking into account the rights of all young people. If showers are communal, find out if there are single-cubicle or private washing facilities which could be used by any young person, including a transgender young person, who would like greater privacy.”

Doesn't chime with what I hear - which is that transgirls are girls and so must be accommodated and anyone who objects is the one likely to be found other arrangement.

OP posts:
boatyardblues · 20/08/2021 16:14

Address the issues, stop trying to shift focus onto the people raising the issues.

Absolutely!

WarriorN · 20/08/2021 16:26

*I think 'panic' is another term like 'hysteria' loaded with gendered baggage. Women 'shriek' or 'panic' or 'spout'. We can't just 'raise concerns', the accusation is always thrown back at women's motivations or characters. We're 'bigots' or 'transphobes' or 'Karens'.

It doesn't work anymore. You can fling insults at women, impugn them and try to shift focus all you like. We see it.*

Absolutely this.

At the risk of being hypocritical, why the obsession with going through girl puberty? I note the slant has changed on the current tory page. 🤔

ourqueerstories.com/sue-pascoe-biography-awakening-from-silence/

We see it.

Tanith · 20/08/2021 16:30

@WarriorN

"Sue Pascoe is Area Chairman of the Conservative Women’s Organisation in North and East Yorkshire."

conservativewomen.uk/articles/about-sue/

Sue Pascoe also welcomed the appointment of Mridil Wadhwa.
cariadlet · 20/08/2021 16:30

I got as far as the paragraph where it mentioned children having a different gender identity from "the one they were assigned at birth" and gave up. I couldn't take it seriously after that and couldn't be bothered to read any more.

Jaysmith71 · 20/08/2021 16:37

This is the Crispin Blunt who was a leading Tory rightwing opponent of gay rights legislation whilst being in the closet himself. The Crispin Blunt who regularly voted against decriminalising drugs but later admitted to taking poppers.

That Crispin Blunt.

RoyalCorgi · 20/08/2021 16:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

OldCrone · 20/08/2021 17:21

why the obsession with going through girl puberty?

“It’s funny, I’m 55, I am very hormonal, I am going through puberty again which means that I am just getting to my teenage girl years – so watch out world.”

Not sure what I can say about this without getting deleted, but some males seem to have an odd idea about what it's like to be a teenage girl.

And why would anyone think that a male adult with an abnormal level of female hormones would have anything in common with a teenage girl?

ludothedog · 20/08/2021 17:38

My 11 year old DD would not object to sharing her shower, changing room or accommodation at guides because she wants to be kind and inclusive. She's also bought into TWAW and wouldn't want to be called a transohobe. It's up to the adults in the room to say no, it's just not appropriate.

The erosion of women's boundaries is dangerous and enfuriating.

WarriorN · 20/08/2021 17:53

@RoyalCorgi

Sue Pascoe used to be a Master of Fox Hounds, I believe, and is now an adviser on inclusion for Channel 4. Pascoe in other words matches a particular profile of high-powered men who transition later in life. I won't say the word we're not allowed to mention but the words Alpha Golf Papa spring to mind.

Interesting, I wonder if pascoe had anything to do with the reported debacle that Stella OMalley and olly (?) had getting their documentary on C4?

WarriorN · 20/08/2021 17:54

Thread:

"No debate" - a TV producer's perspective www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4324986-No-debate-a-TV-producers-perspective

Soontobe60 · 20/08/2021 17:56

@Dancingbea
BN didn’t ‘actively seek to curtail’ the abortion rights of women. She actively sought to give rights to an unborn foetus who has a disability.

Something many people, feminists included, also support.
AssassinatedBeauty · 20/08/2021 18:03

@Soontobe60 the reason why there is so much conflict in this area is because, it is in fact both. Giving an unborn foetus rights impacts on the rights of the woman who is pregnant with it and puts them into a potential state of conflict if the woman doesn't want to continue the pregnancy.

I'm not wanting to start a debate on that topic though, and it's right to be clear about what exactly was said and by whom.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/08/2021 18:44

I would like clarification on various parts of that.

Second, in 2019, there were 697,989 pupils in Scotlands public schools. It is known that around 200 young people per year receive support from the NHS Scotland Young Persons Gender Service with theirtransition. This a tiny number of people working through a different gender identity than they were assigned at birth with professional help. Not as the media would have you believe hordes of fashionable internet influenced adolescents.

What number are on the waiting list for support, but who do not receive support? What number might there be of adolescents in Scottish schools who think they have a gender identity which they think is incongruent with their bodies who are
a) not being seen by a Young Persons' Gender Service, but
b) have spoken about this to pastoral staff at school?

As I know secondary school teaching staff, I am prepared to wager it is quite a number.

“If a young person wants the school to record the change of name and/or change of recorded sex formally, they (with their parents or carers if under 16) should write to the school to instruct this.”

So their parents must be involved to change the records formally.

And what about off-the-formal-record namechanges, then? Like staff informing other members of staff that Sarah wants to be known as Sam from now on without consulting parents, because they think it's the right thing to do for the child?

I'd also like to address this idea of "moral panic".

The parallels they want to insinuate here aren't as clear a parallel as they think. The old moral panic which I think is being hinted at here was the generalisation that all gay men were child predators who shouldn't be allowed to work in Scouts, citing one newspaper article about such a man.

But we're not saying that. We are citing articles to disprove a generalisation that no-one can identify as transgender and be a predator. We wouldn't be doing this if some quarters didn't keep claiming that it couldn't be true, and trying to create special exceptions to safeguarding rules for people who identify as transgender

I never claimed gay males couldn't be child predators- they can, just as straight men can. I just wanted them treated the same way straight males were.

Which is, funnily enough, what I want for males who identify as transgender now.

Males, regardless of gender identity, should not be in the same changing areas as females. According to recently compiled data, 99% of sexual offenders are male. 88% of those offended against are female.

I am constantly being told that transwomen are some of the most vulnerable in society and that they are oppressed by women. If that's so, they shouldn't be with females for their own protection. When performing intimate examinations on female patients, male healthcare staff ask for a chaperone for their own protection, as well as the female patient's, in case of a genuine misunderstanding leading to an official complaint or a female patient making a malicious allegation later.

I am surprised that no-one wishes to safeguard transgirls against such eventualities. If either is a risk for healthcare staff from adult patients who have deliberately sought medical treatment, surely each is a much higher risk in the tempestuous social environment of a secondary school?

Transgirls should be given private space of their own for changing and sleeping, as a matter of routine.

The same applies to transboys, even if they think they are safe in male facilities. Teenagers commonly underestimate risk.

DdraigGoch · 20/08/2021 18:55

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Doesn't chime with what I hear - which is that transgirls are girls and so must be accommodated and anyone who objects is the one likely to be found other arrangement.

It does. It means the transphobe can ask to move and be othered. I wonder what happens when all the girls ask?

I imagine that they will be publicly berated for being "transphobic" and not validating the male.

What validation is supposed to involve, I've no idea. I can only imagine that the girls are expected to line up in the changing room chanting about how feminine the TG is. Or something.

Dancingbea · 20/08/2021 19:08

[quote Soontobe60]@Dancingbea
BN didn’t ‘actively seek to curtail’ the abortion rights of women. She actively sought to give rights to an unborn foetus who has a disability.

Something many people, feminists included, also support.[/quote] Curtailing in my book, and my feminism is about trusting women to decide what they think is best when faced with the decision about whether to bring a child with a significant disability into the world. But perhaps we can agree on this - her separate attempt to reduce the time limit to 12 weeks was an attempt to restrict women’s control over their own bodies and ability to overcome the obstacles presented to them as a result of their biological sex - hence curtailing women’s rights. bills.parliament.uk/bills/2028
IsitM · 20/08/2021 19:23

Pascoe appears to have a very close relationship with the Chair of the Conservative Women’s Organisation; asking the CWO for their definition of ‘woman’ gets the women who ask kicked out of meetings...

highame · 21/08/2021 12:42

It does seem that the TransLobby are trying the conciliatory note. A withdrawal from the self-id (negotiated in secrecy), must be had at all costs. However, the slippery eels like wording is very interesting. I love the way they think we are all stupid and that word salad will confuse us so much that we'll just feel they're being kind. Fat chance, we've seen you and we know what you're trying to do

highame · 21/08/2021 12:43

Forgot to say, that conciliatory note must mean either they realise they're forceful attitude is working against them, or they recognise that the public at large do not buy into this. I think it's both

Jaysmith71 · 21/08/2021 12:55

Why the use of the Americanese term, 'public schools' for what are defined in law as state or maintained schools?

Tibtom · 21/08/2021 13:29

@Jaysmith71

Why the use of the Americanese term, 'public schools' for what are defined in law as state or maintained schools?
'Public school' is a British term - it means private schools. If you search for leading public schools in the UK you get the likes of Eton popping up.
Jaysmith71 · 21/08/2021 13:32

That's the point. Crispin Blunt went to Wellington, what the British but not the Americans would call a public school, or in the world he moves in, it would be called, 'A School,' as in 'Did you go to A School,' as asked in interviews.

Same story for his niece Emily from posh Roehampton and not the estate where my auntie and cousin lived.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 21/08/2021 13:36

Addendum to my earlier point about the difference between the Scottish population of schoolchildren that might identify as trans, and the Scottish population of schoolchildren receiving support from the Scottish Young Persons' Gender Service.

According to the Ministry of Justice, 1 in 50 male prisoners identify as transgender. I doubt they're all being seen by gender identity services, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7230755/One-50-male-prisoners-identify-female.html

Coatandhat · 21/08/2021 13:40

Why does he say "We are confident that neither our Government in Westminster or Holyrood are going to let that happen" ? The Tories are not in power in Scotland. What does he know that would make him say that?

Tibtom · 21/08/2021 13:47

According to the Ministry of Justice, 1 in 50 male prisoners identify as transgender. I doubt they're all being seen by gender identity services, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Which would currently mean about 1600 transwomen prisoners in the uk.

Jaysmith71 · 21/08/2021 13:48

Do you suppose convicted criminals are any more or less likely than the average person to tell fibs?