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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help! HR complaint about my (pretty unexceptional) views

66 replies

RightSideOfHistory · 17/08/2021 00:03

I know I have the law on my side thanks to the wonderful Maya, but I am feeling very shaken now that it's happening to me. I really wish I could go into detail here as I would appreciate some specific advice, but I'm scared about outing myself, so I'll just summarise the situation at a very high level. I give up a lot of my time to help with my company's EDI initiatives, because I care deeply about making things better for women in my field (which is very male-dominated and quite misogynistic), but pretty much everyone else involved in these initiatives subscribes fully to gender ideology. I am always very careful about what I say, because I know what happens to women who talk out of line, but I also speak up for what I think is right where possible, and try to offer alternative points of view. But now I am under investigation because a complaint has been made to HR about some perfectly reasonable things I said (plus some things they claimed I said, but which I didn't in fact say. I assume their incorrect inference was due to the language barrier between sex-realists and gender-ideologists. Though even if I had said what I understand they claimed I said, I don't think it would be worthy of complaint).

Since I can't give specifics (I really wish I could, as I feel very alone), please could you give me your best general advice for dealing with situations like this? The case should absolutely be thrown out, because I did nothing wrong; but regardless of what happens, I think I need to make a stand now. I feel suffocated, and I can't actually believe we've reached a situation where women being bullied into silence for talking about their own struggles is considered acceptable at a supposedly progressive company. It's dystopian.

OP posts:
Doomscrolling · 18/08/2021 11:09

Flowers and solidarity, OP!

perfectstorm · 18/08/2021 11:42

Agree that the union advice is, sadly, questionable. A good lawyer, sourced via Sex Matters or Legal Feminist is your best bet (and a lawyer is how I know home insurance sometimes covers such costs, too).

The Forstater appeal established not only that the belief is protected, but that these views are those congruent with existing law - which protects sex, and gender reassignment, separately, and also provides for situations where rights based on sex take precedence over those for gender reassignment. I imagine your views simply restate the reasons that this is the law, rather than self ID, or gender allowing access in all circumstances. That women have needs and rights based on our bodies and our histories as the subjugated sex, and those are not opt-in, if someone has male biology, for a reason.

Some excellent advice I was given once, when dealing with difficult individuals: don't fill a silence. Don't be made to feel so awkward by their silence that you speak when you have nothing additional of relevance to say.

Thelnebriati · 18/08/2021 12:05

Excellent advice on this thread; I'll just add for anyone who finds themselves in this position that wherever possible you should archive any evidence that has been published on a public system and keep a text record of the comment and the archive URL;
archive.is/

Collect screenshots, text records and links of any evidence on private systems that shouldn't be archived. You can do that easily in a Word document.
It will feel a bit obsessive when you start doing it but its just a private diary. Hopefully you'll never need to use it.

Enough4me · 18/08/2021 18:06

Good advice on a private diary.
The Evernote app is a useful option to collect things like photos and notes on the go in one place. If you need to quickly capture something.

ArabellaScott · 18/08/2021 21:29

Just wishing you strength and good luck, OP. Thanks for standing up for women. Flowers

RightSideOfHistory · 02/10/2021 06:03

I just saw the other thread about someone being investigated for "misgendering" at work, and wanted give an update on my situation, because there seem to be some worrying similarities. But I am too scared to give any details because of potential retaliation by my employer. Though it has been found that I didn't violate any policies, the process (which I'm not sure has even been conducted legally) has not concluded satisfactorily, and has had a profound negative impact on my health. I am finding it very difficult to function in both my personal and professional life as a result. I have been told I am not allowed to talk to any of my peers at work about what has happened to me. Can they legally require that? It feels very wrong that they are effectively making it impossible for me to question their (mis)treatment of me. I think some others would be appalled if they knew, and would want to do something about it. Having said that, I am generally disappointed by how unwilling people are to publicly stand up for what is right. If everyone spoke up together, these oppressive regimes would not be able to spiral out of control. I do understand it's difficult though. It's simply not safe to speak up as an individual, and those in charge to a great job of keeping dissenters isolated and vulnerable.

I don't feel I can let this slide, and I'm not sure what to do. I want to talk to people about it, for my own sanity. I am considering getting legal advice, though I feel sick at how much time and energy this has already wasted, and how much more it will waste if I pursue it. At the same time, I feel so stifled and angry that I don't see any future for myself at this company (or possibly even in this industry) if I don't fight it.

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 02/10/2021 06:47

Just get legal advice op, legal advice is your friend. If you have been through a formal process snd the policy for that process is that no one can discuss it then work could penalise you for discussing it, but that kind of restrictions in a policy seem very unlikely s it’s a bit of a red flag to an employment lawyer and further grievance claim. I hope you get the a-ok to tell everyone!

Leafstamp · 02/10/2021 07:30

Gosh OP, I’m so sorry to read your update, I’d also encourage taking legal advice but also that your health must come first. I’m going to DM you.

JustcameoutGC · 02/10/2021 08:17

@RightSideOfHistory if you haven't already contact Sex Matters, they will help. I can totally imagine what kind of toll this must be taking on you. They may be able to stop you talking to colleagues, but you cant be stopped from talking to people outside work,

Sex Matters will help you access some really fantastic legal advice.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 02/10/2021 08:37

Sorry this has happened to you op. On top of sex matters have you contacted the Free Speech Union? They might have some advice.

Manderleyagain · 02/10/2021 10:34

OP this is obviously quite a serious situation. Read through the thread again. There are some good posts with good advice. Organisations worth contacting are Sex Matters, Free Sleech Union (they have lawyers in board), and possibly Counterweight.

But most importantly get legal advice. There's nothing wrong with doing that. It won't necessarily take up more time than if you continued with whatever comes at you now without legal advice. I expect it will save time and energy in the long run because your actions and energy spent will be productive.

Do you still feel like the senior person you mentioned is supportive of you?

jessiecakes · 02/10/2021 13:32

Thank you for your update and I'm so sorry for what you are going through and have been through. It was my post you read this morning, deleted now as too outing. I have no advice for you, just a shoulder and some understanding now of what might be to come for me.

Do whatever you need to in order to protect your own mental health and well-being. If that means you need to fight, then do so. But equally, there is no shame in walking away and moving on. Best of luckThanks

dyslek · 02/10/2021 19:55

Some random thoughts on malicious allogations;
Stay calm, do go in to detail about how this malicious allogation has affected you, dont throw allogations in the opposite direction, go over everything you are going to say and make as detailed notes of the incident as you can including who said what with times. Never assume people are either with you or against you, just state your fact calmly.

ScribblingPixie · 02/10/2021 20:59

Definitely take legal advice, OP. It sounds as if some legal help would improve your situation no end. So sorry to hear what you're going through. They sound like a nightmare company.

WitchButNotTheFunKind · 03/10/2021 14:47

Messaged you with some thoughts on legal side but advice to talk to sex matters is good advice.

ChristmasPlanning · 03/10/2021 16:05

So sorry to read your update,

No advice except could you get employment advice from ACAS? Do you have legal cover through your insurance?

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