Misogyny and the influence of the ‘Karen’ meme.

[AgnesRose]

Lots of discussion of extreme misogyny and Incel culture after the horrific shootings in Plymouth. I can’t help but think that the casual misogyny of the ‘Karen’ meme really contributes and feeds the problem of entrenched misogyny in society. Women are depicted as ‘entitled’ ‘scolds’ and ‘nags’. No male equivalent has gained the same notoriety, of course. Thoroughly demoralising how so-called progressives on both sides of the Atlantic use it with glee too - young women as well. In the U.K. Karen is the name of older women and are more likely to be working class.

'Karen' and 'T*rf', both fashionable terms of abuse used to dismiss women who assert their normal civil rights and defend their boundaries and safe spaces. There's a particular emphasis on making it cool and trendy amongst the young to dismiss and silence the voices of middle-aged and older women, women who have many decades of lived experience and wisdom as adult human females. Who benefits from that loss of the voices of female lived experience? Not young women, but they're the ones being encouraged by social media to attack and dismiss. Funny that.

And they don’t realise it will all apply to them in a few years.

Casual misogyny is everywhere. 'grow a pair', 'man up', 'ballache' etc etc. The Karen thing is just the latest in a line of hardcore woman hate as normal narrative

I have seen ‘Karen’ described and defended as a ‘term’ and not a name as though this isn’t a gendered name in English speaking countries. The level of denial is staggering and frustrating.

I agree, it is misogyny.

Karen and Terf are both misogyny and I point this out repeatedly with long winded explanations every time I hear it. It's boring but necessary. Anyone not taking what I say on board is a called bigoted versions of what they are for the rest of our time together. Eg Old codger, silly old man, snowflake, road man, trendy right on teenager, trendy vegan, silly little girl/boy. Etc. I am so careful and respectful usually that it works a treat.

I also suggest that instead of 'Karen' they use my name- a similar Middle Aged name.
And send them this karenismyname.org/renamer

I have seen the generator on another thread. The use of any given name as an insult is bullying and thoroughly unpleasant. Even if it isn’t personal to someone named ‘Karen’ the idea that it wouldn’t have an impact on someone with that name seeing that everywhere is ludicrous and disingenuous.

It's my name and I hate it. But these discussions always end in black women saying white women are policing their language and it makes the whole thing even more entrenched.

The people who use it most often and enthusiastically in my experience are white -have mainly seen it used recently to do with disagreements about mask wearing.
Also, find it odd that it is ok in English speaking countries to use a Danish name as an insult. Karen is also the name of an ethnic group in Myanmar. Nothing about this is progressive. Quite the opposite.

Totally agree OP.

I saw the comedian Sarah Silverman take calls on various issues. One was a woman saying how the term Karen was misogynistic. Sarah basically told her that she was an entitled white woman who should suck it up. Gobsmacked.

Young women are only too happy to call the middle aged women Karen. However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman. I've seen middle aged women behave abhorrently in this respect. Older women are very fast to shame a younger woman and let the man off the hook etc. Its not so simple as older women are wiser etc because they are just as receptive to internal misogyny as young women are. Misogynistic men exploit this situation with great ease. It's sad but I really can't blame younger women for seeing older women as the baddies.

However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman.

I really don’t know what you mean, perhaps you are referring to a specific incident but I would certainly doubt that this is the norm.

However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman

Huh???

‘However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman. I've seen middle aged women behave abhorrently in this respect.’

Can’t say that I have any experience of this or really know what you are taking about. Sorry. Most middle aged women I know are trying to deal with the demands of balancing working with childcare and maybe having to care or support elderly parents. Not to mention debilitating peri menopause and menopause symptoms.

@Gab2

Young women are only too happy to call the middle aged women Karen. However, I have seen so many middle aged women do anything to win or a keep a man even if it means destroying the life of a young woman. I've seen middle aged women behave abhorrently in this respect. Older women are very fast to shame a younger woman and let the man off the hook etc. Its not so simple as older women are wiser etc because they are just as receptive to internal misogyny as young women are. Misogynistic men exploit this situation with great ease. It's sad but I really can't blame younger women for seeing older women as the baddies.

I'm curious what you mean about middle aged women destroying the lives of young women for men?

Im not convinced “Karen” is misogyny as it is by definition applied to certain white women acting all entitled and racist towards nonwhites.

www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/
“WHAT DOES KAREN MEAN?

Karen is a pejorative slang term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman who uses her privilege to get her way or police other people's behaviors.

As featured in memes, Karen is generally stereotyped as having a blonde bob haircut, asking to speak to retail and restaurant managers to voice complaints or make demands, and being an anti-vaxx , Generation X soccer mom.

In 2020, Karen spread as a label used to call out white women who were captured in viral videos engaging in what are widely seen as racist acts.”

To say that the Karen meme is misogyny is literally appropriating a term that we nonwhites use to label racist white women behaving badly in public. So, no do not agree.

To say that the Karen meme is misogyny is literally appropriating a term that we nonwhites use to label racist white women behaving badly in public. So, no do not agree.

So choose another word that doesn't impact on individuals called Karen. I don't think it's even right in this context. Why make an individual feel bad about her name when she's done nothing wrong? And there are quite a few black Karens.

But in reality, this isn't how it's used now, in the UK. It's used against any middle aged woman who's standing up for herself or others. There's no male equivalent. And it's middle aged women who are challenging male entitlement and upholding safeguarding. It's pretty dangerous to silence us, even if younger people at this point don't think so.

Was there ever an eponimous villainess? Were any of the women singled out for this opprobrium so named?

In the UK, we had the "Sharon & Tracey" phenomenon, but the two icons there were fictional.

@TabbyStar

That mis-use of Karen is the appropriation I am talking about. It needs to stop. The mis-use could be misogynistic...but again it’s being appropriated. So the appropriation should stop....instead of Karen being taken away from us.

Anyways incels call those they hate different names, the men are Chads and the women are Staceys. They don’t use Karen. So the OP is doing a leap of illogic there that is baffling.

But these discussions always end in black women saying white women are policing their language

Aaaand there you go:
literally appropriating a term that we nonwhites use to label racist white women behaving badly in public

I’m not called Karen but I can see how offensive it’s use has become. It is most frequently used to label middle aged women who disagree with men and younger people of either sex. It’s really unpleasant, and it should be possible to object to the negative connotations of its use without someone popping up to say it’s appropriation and should be talked about.

Women should be standing up for women, not arguing among ourselves about whether words used with misogynistic intent are actually misogynistic or not.

"Obnoxious , angry snd middle aged and entitled"

These are stereotypes used against women who don't shut up snd move over. Against women who stand up for themselves,

Because the same behaviour in men Is seen as assertive or even powerful whereas it is seen as unbecoming in women

If you think someone is racist just call them racist don't employ a load of cheap misogyny to try snd prove your point

to me it suggests your accusation of racism is weak if you need to rely on an appeal to internalised misogyny

@PlanDeRaccordement

Im not convinced “Karen” is misogyny as it is by definition applied to certain white women acting all entitled and racist towards nonwhites.

www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/
“WHAT DOES KAREN MEAN?

Karen is a pejorative slang term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman who uses her privilege to get her way or police other people's behaviors.

As featured in memes, Karen is generally stereotyped as having a blonde bob haircut, asking to speak to retail and restaurant managers to voice complaints or make demands, and being an anti-vaxx , Generation X soccer mom.

In 2020, Karen spread as a label used to call out white women who were captured in viral videos engaging in what are widely seen as racist acts.”

To say that the Karen meme is misogyny is literally appropriating a term that we nonwhites use to label racist white women behaving badly in public. So, no do not agree.

This is a bit muddled as you say it isn’t misogynistic but at the same time acknowledge its ageist and misogynistic roots? It is also a Danish name so to my ears when I hear people using it, it strikes me as somewhat xenophobic too. It only became popular in the US after the war and due to Danish immigration. I see men using it to ridicule women on social media all the time, especially older women. I would never use someone’s name as an insult or as a reductive short hand term. I find it problematic for many reasons but I don’t expect everyone to agree.

Whatever. White people appropriate a meme used by we nonwhites to call out racist white women and then tell me to not use it because you’ve been using it misogynistically, and tell me I must just call people racists.

Another bit of my culture just like that....taken by white people and I’m told by white women not to use it.

You take and you break.

Saying it is used to call out racist behaviour isnt accurate. "Can I speak to your manager" is often the karen meme, people seem to find it offensive that a woman wants to be assertive.