Misogyny and the influence of the ‘Karen’ meme.

[AgnesRose]

Lots of discussion of extreme misogyny and Incel culture after the horrific shootings in Plymouth. I can’t help but think that the casual misogyny of the ‘Karen’ meme really contributes and feeds the problem of entrenched misogyny in society. Women are depicted as ‘entitled’ ‘scolds’ and ‘nags’. No male equivalent has gained the same notoriety, of course. Thoroughly demoralising how so-called progressives on both sides of the Atlantic use it with glee too - young women as well. In the U.K. Karen is the name of older women and are more likely to be working class.

The meme is not primarily about being racist. It really isn’t, it never was. It came from the “Fuck you, Karen” Reddit mostly. It was a site about one man raging about his ex wife, and became about any man raging about any woman in the same age group. Every possible sin any woman of a similar age got rolled into one package, because we all know middle aged women are responsible for everything that is bad about the world.

Saying it’s meme about racists, or even about women who are horrible to service staff, disguises and excuses the fact that it’s just a meme that allows any and all hatred of women under one all encompassing umbrella of misogyny.

Yes, exactly. Most people don't understand where it came from. It's always been misogynistic and it's never had this supposed anti racist meaning in the U.K., it's used indiscriminately at mostly middle aged and older women who assert them senses who men and younger women don't approve of in some way, they might be in favour of everyone being vaccinated or be antivaxxers, in favour of masks or ask people to wear them. I've heard it used about young women, black women and Asian women.

*Assert themselves

Regards Danes and Scandis in general, their identity is often held up in the US as the epitome of whiteness and as such worthy of disdain.

In fact, the Nordic countries are far from all-white these days, as any photo of their national football teams will confirm.

Indeed, in the US it is considered 'funny' for Trevor Noah to mock the French World Cup winning team on the grounds that black guys with dreads cannot and can never be considered French.

@Squills

If anyone wants to see how it feels to have their own name used in such a derogatory fashion follow the link and enter your own name. Doing so will change all the current uses of the name Karen to your name.

karenismyname.org/renamer

I changed my name at the beginning of this year and I know I’m not the only woman to have done so.

@Squills Are you in the U.K?

I do find it interesting that society's bile and blame is put upon women in this way, particularly 'meddlesome' women. Now the misogyny seems to be expanding.

www.theroot.com/the-6-kinds-of-karens-1847475979

I usually turn up on these threads at some point. I'm a Karen, I love my name and bow to no man or daft internet hack. I've made my points so many times and I'm busy today so and have a lovely day.

Some of the dehumanising language employed and how people feel entitled to use it is what I find most fearful. All forms of bigotry and prejudice use language like this.

I was not aware of the racial angle before. I don't understand why some black women may wish to attack some white women through misappropriating any name. How does it stop racism to create more racism?
How do women become stronger if they pull each other down?

@EarthSight

Yes, I'm in the UK.

I'm saddened that it appears that women of a 'certain age' are treated with such hostility and disrespect through no fault of their own. It isn't just misogyny... sadly other women are only too quick to jump on the bandwagon.

The BBC had a podcast where three young women gave their 'insight' into how women could prevent themselves being a Karen. They relished the opportunity to give their views on the subject which went along the lines of 'educate yourselves, read some books, don't be so loud, shut up, just disappear'. Unbelievable arrogance yet it was deemed fit for broadcast by the BBC... it has been taken down now but I guess will still be available to those who wish to see it.

I took about a year to see if things got any better before deciding to change my name legally by Deed Poll. I just can't go through life being judged unfairly by something I have no control over.

For me the only option was to change my name. I felt a great relief after doing so... I hadn't realised quite the extent to which it was bothering me.

I have heard of a teacher in the UK who changed her job and her name after being bullied by her teenaged students and other staff simply because of her name.

Sadly it doesn't seem to be abating.

@Squills Awful. What happens when you change jobs though? Presumably there comes a point where you have to disclose any previous names? Would you ask them not to disclose this information to other members of staff? I'm guessing that information would be confidential anyway?

[quote EarthSight]@Squills Awful. What happens when you change jobs though? Presumably there comes a point where you have to disclose any previous names? Would you ask them not to disclose this information to other members of staff? I'm guessing that information would be confidential anyway?[/quote]
If you don’t have to disclose your birth sex when you have a GRC, it seems a bit much to have to give previous forenames to colleagues. For the DBS check, sure.

[quote EarthSight]@Squills Awful. What happens when you change jobs though? Presumably there comes a point where you have to disclose any previous names? Would you ask them not to disclose this information to other members of staff? I'm guessing that information would be confidential anyway?[/quote]
Yes, I agree it is an awful situation. I'm afraid that people do judge you on your name. On the very first post of this thread you can glean that those named Karen are 'working class and old'. I don't fit either of these stereotypes but you can see how the name now has negative connotations.

It's illegal to use your old name once you've changed your name by Deed Poll. I don't think you'd have to disclose name changes in most employment situations. As you say, it would be confidential information should you be required to do so.

@Squills Interesting. I guess a conversation would also need to be had with whoever checks the references as previous employers might only know the person by their previous name.

@EarthSight

I wouldn't be an issue. People change their names for all manner of reasons. If I were looking for employment I'd mention it should I be shortlisted and references applied for. Personally my middle name and surname remain the same. So long as you can provide a 'paper trail' showing the changes and the legal change everything is up and above board.

In fact you don't even need to change your name by Deed Poll. You can make a Statutory Declaration and have it sworn at a solicitor's office. I chose to do it legally as it was easier when it came to changing the name on my bank accounts and similar.

What I actually said was Karen is the name of older women and are more likely to be working class. Why do you think being older and working class is a negative thing? I am from a working class background and older - being in my late 40s and I don’t consider either of those things negative. As for having a name that is seen as being old, try being called Agnes…

@AgnesRose

What I actually said was Karen is the name of older women and are more likely to be working class. Why do you think being older and working class is a negative thing? I am from a working class background and older - being in my late 40s and I don’t consider either of those things negative. As for having a name that is seen as being old, try being called Agnes…

I see it as negative I'm afraid.

You ask why I think that way and I'd reply that I've seen so much negativity over the last couple of years regarding the Karen meme that, to me, it all just adds up to one big negative. That is the reason I changed my name.

I can't do anything to stop it but I can take a step away from being, as I saw it, a target. I do try to convey to others how it feels to actually be called Karen. I've heard that some young people don't even realise it's a name - they think it's an insult!

I don't want to be judged by my name.