BY A FOUR-TO-ONE MARGIN, CANADIANS BELIEVE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES’ PARTICIPATION IN WOMEN’S SPORT IS “UNFAIR”: NEW MLI POLL

[TedImgoingmad]

This leading Canadian think tank has reported today. I haven't read it as it's just been published, but thought I would share anyway. The opening para reads:

OTTAWA, ON (August 4, 2021): New polling conducted on behalf of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute reveals significant findings regarding Canadians’ views on gender identity and women’s sport. By wide margins, Canadians support traditional sex-based categories for competitive sport, and they believe that allowing transgender athletes who were born male but who identify as women to compete in women’s competitive events is “unfair.”

www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/gender-womens-sports-poll/

that's quite cheering

what do we think are the chances of the canadian government paying attention?

I know they have a fair amount of landmass but they're going to need an infeasibly large gulag (archipelago).

@MrsOvertonsWindow

I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at this. If policy makers ever consulted ordinary people - especially women - there would be no men self identifying as women in hospital wards, women's prisons, changing rooms, showers, dormitories, refuges, sports or anywhere where women gather for women only company. It wouldn't happen. There are no women anywhere in the world who seek to be undressed / vulnerable in front of unknown men - no matter how they present.

People recognise this for what it is - deliberate intrusion and erosion of women and girls privacy, safety and dignity.

I agree, but I have a strong suspicion this is exactly why they didn't consult women about this. They don't want to hear our concerns or complaints, because we don't really matter to them.

I hope this will be reported in Canadian mainstream media, but I'm doubtful. Because it doesn't fit the narrative of 'everything is fine, rainbows and sunshine blah blah'.

Blimey I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of Canadians here but they only polled 888 people. I can see the TRAs claiming that’s not enough people to make it a credible poll.

No, you're wrong. Transmen are not welcome in women's sports if they have taken testosterone as this would give a performance advantage.
We need research on how long it takes for the hormone effect to wear off if women desist and it would be nice to welcome them back when the playing field is level. Girls who take testosterone from a very young age are an unknown quantity to me..

@MotionActivatedDog

Your title is incorrect OP. It’s not transgender athletes in women’s sports being called unfair- transmen are perfectly acceptable in women’s sports- it’s transwomen in women’s sports that are considered unfair.

Why would trans men be "perfectly acceptable" in women's sports? If trans men are taking testosterone they will have an unfair advantage over women.

@1Endeavour2

No, you're wrong. Transmen are not welcome in women's sports if they have taken testosterone as this would give a performance advantage. We need research on how long it takes for the hormone effect to wear off if women desist and it would be nice to welcome them back when the playing field is level. Girls who take testosterone from a very young age are an unknown quantity to me..

That would apply to any woman in woman’s sport though- not just transmen.

Why would trans men be "perfectly acceptable" in women's sports? If trans men are taking testosterone they will have an unfair advantage over women.

Transmen are as perfectly acceptable in women’s sport as other women are. Why wouldn’t they be? Being a transman does not automatically = being on T just like being a transwoman does not automatically = having breast implants. The rules on doping apply to all women in sport.

That would apply to any woman in woman’s sport though- not just transmen

Your point being what exactly?

You have pointlessly weighed in on the OP who correctly quoted the survey she was referring to.

You have incorrectly stated that trans men are "perfectly acceptable" in women's sport. No - they aren't.

@MotionActivatedDog what are the point of your posts?

They’re neither informative or interesting.

Your point being what exactly?

Exactly what I stated- that any woman who took testosterone wouldn’t be welcome as they would have an unfair advantage. Not just transmen.

You have incorrectly stated that trans men are "perfectly acceptable" in women's sport. No - they aren't.

I think you’ll find youre wrong. Transmen are women and perfectly acceptable in women’s sports.

Pegasus my initial post was just to point out the inaccuracy in the title. Then there was a discussion about it. You can ignore what bores you.

@MotionActivatedDog

Your point being what exactly?

Exactly what I stated- that any woman who took testosterone wouldn’t be welcome as they would have an unfair advantage. Not just transmen.

You have incorrectly stated that trans men are "perfectly acceptable" in women's sport. No - they aren't.

I think you’ll find youre wrong. Transmen are women and perfectly acceptable in women’s sports.

No- trans men who have taken no testosterone are welcome in women's sports. There is a huge difference.

You can ignore what bores you

That would be so much easier if you hadn’t chosen to derail an interesting thread.

No- trans men who have taken no testosterone are welcome in women's sports. There is a huge difference.

All women who have taken no testosterone are welcome in women’s sports. That’s not just a rule that applies to transmen.

Pegasus stop engaging with me then! Post what you want to discuss.

@MotionActivatedDog

Pegasus my initial post was just to point out the inaccuracy in the title. Then there was a discussion about it. You can ignore what bores you.

The title isn't inaccurate. Here's a screenshot from the link in the OP.

Macdonald-Laurier Institute, a Canadian think tank, has published an article with the title: "By a four-to-one margin, Canadians believe transgender athletes’ participation in women’s sport is “unfair”: New MLI poll"

The title of this thread (about the article and the poll) is copied directly from the MLI website. Contact them if you think their title is 'incorrect'. Here's their email to make it easier for you. [email protected]

Looks like the discussion started at 9pm, the brilliant Dr Emma Hilton is currently speaking, and Coach Blade is also there.

As to the issue over the title of this thread: having read a bit more of the study, within its terms of reference, the poll used the word "transgender" to mean transwomen:

Respondents were asked: “Increasingly, athletes who were born male but who identify as female, referred to as transgender, are allowed to compete in women's events despite often having greater muscle, strength and speed from being born male. Is this fair to female athletes in your view?"

Sixty-two percent believe it is “unfair” compared to 15 percent for who think it’s “fair” – a ratio of roughly four-to-one against. Among Canadians with firm[3] views, 39.4 percent are opposed compared to 6.6 percent for it, or a six-to-one ratio.

Therefore, within the parameters and terminology of the polling questions, the title of the report is not incompatible with its opening paragraph or the wider report of the results. The term "transgender" in the report referred to one thing only - trans women.

No questions were asked about transmen in the poll that would support the assertion that Canadians believe transmen are perfectly acceptable in women’s sports.

My own point of view is that it is utterly bizarre that anyone who rejects their female birth status should then demand to compete in sports designed to celebrate the achievements of women. If a transman truly believes they are a man, then surely it would be anathema for them to do so. And surely, crowning them as a female champion would be nothing short of transphobia by their own philosophy. Obviously, nobody doping up on T should be anywhere near sport.

Its not that I don't think sports are important, but prisons have been made mixed sex, Vancouver Rape Crisis and the Anchorage Hope women's shelter have both been under attack; none of them got this much support.

Cheers ted thanks for posting this

Good to see Canadians are astute

@WithLargeTableMouse

Blimey I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of Canadians here but they only polled 888 people. I can see the TRAs claiming that’s not enough people to make it a credible poll.

TRAs should be reminded that:

1. The IOC rule change allowing TW who had not fully transitioned to compete in women's categories was based on a study of 14 people who were not even elite athletes;

1. The oft quoted Stonewall study on suicidal feelings amongst transpeople was based on a poll of, IIRC, 28 people.

Sorry your thread’s been derailed by someone spoiling for a fight.

Good read. Glad to see not everyone’s fallen down the rabbit hole.

Cheers. I'm glad it's provided another glimmer of hope in this clusterfuck of an era we find ourselves in. Having hitherto believed Canada is a complete lost cause, I hope the study does in fact reflect wider public opinion there, and makes people think of women's need for their own spaces beyond sport. Not being an expert on polling or from Canada, I am taking it at face value that it is generally good news for GC Canadians.

A sample size of 888 people gives an error margin of about 4%:
www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/references/sample-size-surveys

4% is irrelevant to this poll. At the most extreme it would mean 76% think it's unfair to let transwomen into women's sport.

... and of course it's just as likely to mean 84% as 76%

@Thelnebriati

Its not that I don't think sports are important, but prisons have been made mixed sex, Vancouver Rape Crisis and the Anchorage Hope women's shelter have both been under attack; none of them got this much support.

But they didn't ask about those things. I think you'd see similar figures for prisons nd probably shelters.

Most people aren't aware of them. Vancouver is 5000 km from the other end of the country, I doubt most people in eastern Canada could name more than once political figure in British Columbia, much less be aware of local issues about women's shelters there. I haven't talked to anyone, at all, who knows about the prison issue.

The media in Canada just doesn't report anything that is inconvenient to the TRA narrative, from what I can see. I think if the average Canadian knew what was going on, they'd be pretty appalled.

It doesn't help that for the last four years Canada has spent the time trying to do the opposite of whatever the US does. ("Look at us! We're not like Trump's America!") It's similar to Scotland desperately trying to show how unlike England it is.