Censored for stating facts - guardian olympics blog

[HermioneKipper]

I’m so angry and feeling like the world has gone mad.

The guardian olympics liveblog has commented about the women’s 200m being amazing and that Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi ran great races. Plus adding an article from Seb Coe saying that this proves the new rules are working.

I tried commenting underneath but all my comments are being deleted despite stating facts and saying nothing abusive. All I said was that these athletes have xy chromosomes and that these levels of testosterone would result in women being banned for doping. Perhaps saying that it’s not a fair playing field and medals have been snatched from female athletes who’ve trained all their lives caused me to get deleted 🤷‍♀️

It feels like we’ve entered the black mirrorverse and a really bad joke.

@SCMocha
Well, maybe it's not more likely, I'm not sure.
Still, the point is, all we know for certain is they must have a Y chromosome to be caught by the testosterone rules, and so we should stick to what we know for certain in all debates. Ultimately, I'm not saying it matters: Y chromosome = no place in women's sports.

There is a limited list of DSDs that are covered by the current rules. I may be wrong, but I believe all of those are associated with 46XY chromosomes. Largely because they're the common ones causing problems. The other disorders involving significant chromosome variations are rarer, and more likely to be having a health impact that means you're unlikely to be in competitive sport.

In principle, yes, it's the presence of the Y chromosome, or more specifically the SRY gene, that's the issue. That's what they're working from, but the legal challenges have forced them to work in a piecemeal fashion - particular DSDs, and particular events.

@IAmWomxxnHearMeRoar

Totally agree with this thread and the fact if you've got a Y chromosome you should never be allowed to compete in women's sports, but..... you've said that the Namibians have XY chromosomes, but we don't know that. We know they must have a Y chromosome, but it's more likely (although not confirmed), they have XXY, rather than XY. That's still means they are men, have advantages and should not be allowed, because the presence or absence of the Y chromosome that denotes sex. (eg see this from the NHS: www.nhs.uk/conditions/klinefelters-syndrome/). Next time, just stick to fact they have Y chromosome, rather than speculating on what else there is maybe??

A man with Klinefelters would 'look' like a man, with male genitalia, so would not end up in the position that these Namibian athletes are in. In addition, Klinefelters syndrome often presents with poor muscle development and coordination, and sometimes lower than average testosterone levels. Unlikely to make elite athletes!

This is the easy read version of the DSD regulations:
www.worldathletics.org/news/press-release/questions-answers-iaaf-female-eligibility-reg

And this is the actual one:
[Broken link removed by MNHQ ]

(a) A Relevant Athlete is an athlete who meets each of the following three criteria:
(i) she has one of the following DSDs:
(A) 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency;
(B) partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (PAIS);
(C) 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 3 (17β- HSD3) deficiency;
(D) ovotesticular DSD; or
(E) any other genetic disorder involving disordered gonadal steroidogenesis;

and
(ii) as a result, she has circulating testosterone levels in blood of five (5) nmol/L or
above;

and
(iii) she has sufficient androgen sensitivity for those levels of testosterone to have a
material androgenising effect.

All of the detail that I could find on a quick google suggested that these were XY (as opposed to XXY) DSDs. Happy to be corrected though.

Sorry - couldn't get second link to work but you can find it from the first one.

@Avocadowoman thanks for posting that. V useful

@TerfTerf

A man with Klinefelters would 'look' like a man, with male genitalia, so would not end up in the position that these Namibian athletes are in. In addition, Klinefelters syndrome often presents with poor muscle development and coordination, and sometimes lower than average testosterone levels. Unlikely to make elite athletes!

Okay, but to be fair the Namibian athletes (unlike Semenya) do not look like men, although I've obviously only seen them with their clothes on!

@Avocadowoman
This is incredibly helpful. Can't say I understand it, but will do some research and try to!
What I'm keen to understand though is, is it possible to meet this criteria and be subject to the testosterone rules and NOT have a Y chromosome?

No, the rules are specific that they apply to XY athletes only and not XX athletes.