Advice please! Sex vs Gender in work training module

[Pixilicious]

Hi all, I've stuck me head above the parpet at work and challenged the use of Gender in place of sex in some D&I learning that has been rolled out. I've been asked to comment on the following scenario and want to go back with a suggestion of how this could be worded better - suggestions please:

"What I would encourage you to do next time is consider that football is a sport for all, and that gender equality is a human right. Your conversation in the office can be heard by others outside of your group that would consider your comments offensive and discriminatory."

Is gender equality a human right? If so defined by who? and is equality based on sex also a human right?

www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

I've been asked to comment on the following scenario and want to go back with a suggestion of how this could be worded better - suggestions please:

"What I would encourage you to do next time is consider that football is a sport for all, and that gender equality is a human right. Your conversation in the office can be heard by others outside of your group that would consider your comments offensive and discriminatory."

Is the scenario intended to challenge sexism against women playing football?

Don’t know the context, but a good approach is always to say that sex and gender reassignment are the protected characteristics and both qualifying under the Equality Act. The organisation needs to be careful not to engage in sex discrimination, whether direct or indirect.

Do you know where this D&I stuff has come from? Are your org Stonewall Champions?

@R0wantrees - I think it is more about discussing football in the office and assuming women aren't interested in that conversation

So the "others outside of your group that would consider your comments offensive and discriminatory" are women who are interested in football?

And the potential offence and discrimination is the assumption female colleagues aren't interested in being part of a coversation about football?

I've been asked to comment on the following scenario and want to go back with a suggestion of how this could be worded better

My comment would be to ask for clarification of what is actually happening in the scenario and for further details of the specific issues the training is intending to address.

[quote Hollybollybingbong]www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights[/quote]
Article 2:

"Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, SEX, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status..."

See also the ECHR, Article 14:

"The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this
Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground
such as SEX, race, colour, language, religion, political or other
opinion, national or social origin, association with a national
minority, property, birth or other status.."

www.echr.coe.int/documents/convention_eng.pdf

Gender is pretty much always used in general about equality, I don't think there's always a hidden agenda, it is just used as it's the ubiquitous term world wide. If you Google gender equality you can see the whole world uses it.

Unless you are working at the football association and trying to keep men out of women's teams, then it's only written as a synonym for general purposes.

Gender & sex are not the same and it’s the conflation of the two that has enabled for example Ireland to do away with single sex spaces because their legislation talks about gender not sex. Allowing the replacement of sex with gender when we specifically mean sex is one of the reasons we are where we are

As far as the above scenario is concerned, 1. They’re wrong - gender equality is not a human right but sex equality is 2. Frankly it sounds ridiculous - no one talks like that in real life & someone spouting sexist bullshit would laugh off a pompous response like that from their line manager. If it’s meant to be realistic, it should be about how would you challenge someone with those views (god organisational training can be the worst!)

www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

I've been asked to comment on the following scenario
Think like a politician. Don't answer the question they ask; answer the question you wish that they had asked. Take control of the narrative.

@Fitt

Gender is pretty much always used in general about equality, I don't think there's always a hidden agenda, it is just used as it's the ubiquitous term world wide. If you Google gender equality you can see the whole world uses it.

Unless you are working at the football association and trying to keep men out of women's teams, then it's only written as a synonym for general purposes.

This is the cause of a great deal of confusion as gender is conflated with 'gender identity' by transactivist groups whilst most people use gender as a synonym for sex.

The scenario could for example be used to silence/discipline people currently discussing the impact of male athletes competing in women's Olympic events.

The thing is "gender equality is a human right" is basically wrong. And it'd still be wrong if it said sex instead of gender.

Everyone must be treated equally under human rights (ECHR Article 14), but that's a much more limited sense than equality more broadly.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1

The Equality Act 2010 gives people rights and protections with regards to the protected characteristics, but those aren't human rights. Even then, those laws only apply to certain areas of life (and include exemptions) - so it's still more limited than equality more broadly.

It smacks of people not knowing what they're talking about, to be honest. The scenario presented is an Equality Act situation, not a human rights one. There's also the focus on subjective offence over objective harassment. It's not unlawful under the Equality Act to offend someone, it's unlawful to harass someone (which an offensive comment may or may not constitute).

Is gender equality a human right? If so defined by who? and is equality based on sex also a human right?
Duurrr. I've just realised that we have missed the open goal (pun intended).
The experts on human rights are the Equality and Human Rights Commission. They have recently "quit the Stonewall Diversity Champions Scheme". If the EHRC don't buy into this stuff then why are your organisation hanging on to it? Ask them to justify their position.

Explain to your employer about the finding in the Maya Forstater case: that her views are worthy of respect. The (threatening, imo) comment of "Your conversation in the office can be heard by others outside of your group that would consider your comments offensive and discriminatory" is an unlawful attempt to silence you.

Are they using “gender equality” here in the same way that organisations talk about the “gender pay gap”?

We know it’s actually their sex that causes women to be paid less then men, but it’s never called the “sex pay gap”.

@Ekofisk

Are they using “gender equality” here in the same way that organisations talk about the “gender pay gap”?

We know it’s actually their sex that causes women to be paid less then men, but it’s never called the “sex pay gap”.

when trans women transition, their salaries adjust to the female side of the gender pay gap, so maybe gender pay gap is the appropriate term? Discrimination happens based on perceptions others hold of you and the associated prejudice/expectations.

How many transwomen select and establish their careers as men in the traditionally male roles that are higher paying before transitioning?

How many transwomen take time out from their careers to have children? Women’s pay takes a significant hit after childbirth due to having to work (often part time) around childcare constraints that create significant barriers to entering or maintaining senior roles that usually require long hours.

Both sex and gender play a role, but the physical reality of being the sex that gives birth is not something that can affect transwomen.

when trans women transition, their salaries adjust to the female side of the gender pay gap, so maybe gender pay gap is the appropriate term? Discrimination happens based on perceptions others hold of you and the associated prejudice/expectations.

Evidence?

Sex is the correct term - it's what's enshrined in law along with gender reassignment.

I think both those sentences are correct wrongside, but not necessarily connected to each other.

Thanks all I have responded with a request for them to identify where it is stated that gender equality is a human right. It's gone very quiet

@senua

I've been asked to comment on the following scenario Think like a politician. Don't answer the question they ask; answer the question you wish that they had asked. Take control of the narrative.

When politicians do this, they come across as dishonest and evasive.

Good question!

@Pixilicious

Thanks all I have responded with a request for them to identify where it is stated that gender equality is a human right. It's gone very quiet

Are they trying to stop people assuming that women don't like football?

Because that's good. But they need to say sex, not gender, and it's not about 'sex equality', it's about making sexist assumptions.

Pulling them up on the term 'gender equality' and asking where it states that it's a right, might make them think that you're all for sexism?

What I would encourage you to do next time is consider that football is a sport for all, and that gender equality is a human right. Your conversation in the office can be heard by others outside of your group that would consider your comments offensive and discriminatory."

What I would encourage you to do next time is consider that football is a sport for all, and making sexist assumptions about who may or may not enjoy it, based on their sex, isn't acceptable here.