Brainwashed

[MadameKali]

So I wanted to start a thread of my own but, like some kind of tosspot, managed to add it to another thread by accident. The internet is a mystery to me.
Anyway I've copied it below:

I've been pondering lately how we've managed to sleepwalk into where we are now. How have people been so duped? Many people are waking up to the reality and the scales are falling, but why were the scales there in the first place?

Two years ago hearing about "pregnant men" I would've quite happily nodded along thinking "yes, yes of course men can be pregnant and have babies" How did I never come to the point of going "Hmm, I did GCSE biology and I'm pretty sure that men having babies would've been covered. I should maybe do a bit of research because that just doesn't make sense" Nope, just blindly went along with it. I'm hardly brain of Britain but how could I have been so dumb?

I just accepted that yes, TWAW of course they are. Anyone who feels like a woman is one. How did I never question "what does a woman feel like?" Possibly the fact that I've never given any thought to feeling like a women - it's just my reality - but that I knew I wasn't a man, meant that other people felt or didn't feel like their reality. (Don't know if that makes sense, it does in my head)

A story in the Daily Mail about male born people in women's prisons would've been hand waved away with "Fucking Fail, making shit up again" It's definitely a lie and against the law Surely if it was true the Guardian would cover it. They're my tribe, we are the good guys.

I guess the last example is slightly different because that's stuff being overtly fed to us by the media with certain things being deliberately hidden. But is the other stuff also a symptom of that? Was I just a thicky? It's like some weird brainwashing experiment.

I don't want to keep rambling but does anybody have any ideas how we got to the stage that seemingly intelligent people believe such nonsense? While I'm here, a big thanks to the women of the naughty corner (and a particular RL friend) for making my eyes open, it's odd that once you see it, you can't unsee it.

@RedToothBrush

Btw of you want to see an example of the smoky room experience in real world action, pay attention to mask wearing.

In situations were no one else is doing it, you will see people wearing less masks. Its almost harder to buck the trend and do so yourself.

The converse is also true. Where the majority are wearing masks it becomes harder not to.

It doesn't matter what your view on risk actually is. You are likely to behave differently based on what others are doing rather than your own personal concerns and risk assessment of the situation.

Social conformity in action in a very visible way

For sure. I never wore a mask until the day it became compulsory because I felt a right dick wearing one. Six months later and I forgot my mask on a school run, and I was as embarrassed as if I'd forgotten my trousers!

@Lonel

I think has a lot to do with the bad rap feminists get. Feminists have been warning about this for over a decade but a lot of people - male and female - dismiss feminists as cranks, men-haters etc etc. I know many women who make it very clear even now that they are NOT feminists. It is very difficult for women to centre women and not be chastised for doing so.

This is why many favour the concept of women's liberation movement over feminism and feminist as a label.

I've also recently heard of "evidence based feminism" which I think like the sound of.

Of course, "evidence" can include evidence on all sides but indicates a level of testing and analysis, and scientific scrutiny. So, yes debate.

@RedToothBrush a very well thought out post that I read with great interest!

“Things I'd speak up about now in the workplace or public, say on a train when a male harrasses a female, I wouldn't have done as a teenager”

Absolutely this.

Although I’d like to think I’d have intervened against harassment when I was younger, now I KNOW I would, and a lot of that comes from age/maturity and the associated bloody mindedness. I guess I’m also better now at recognising when other men are being dicks too.

This is why education is so important! I always considered myself engaged in a deeply subversive activity - and openly said so, though many thought I was joking - in the classroom. Teaching children not just to read but to question what they read and to think and challenge what others might say and do was the real reward. I tried to empower thousands of children to be con-proof over the years. I hope and trust they are all part of the 25%.

I

Re smoke filled room experiment; there's also the added emotional effect of using fake / badly reported suicide stats as a coercive tool.

Suicide is awful. Drumming down on the differing reasons behind suicide of trans id individuals leads to different conclusions however of the real reasons.

Many seek trans id due to a great deal
Of other mh issues or trauma. Trans is often found to "be the answer." Transition doesn't always (if ever) solve the issues. As many detrans people talk about. I'm thinking also of teen cases Dr Moore describes in her book.

I think a lot of people were lulled into a sense of security because doctors and scientists seemed to be on board, and they are experts and under scrutiny.

But there is the opening passage in The Screwtape Letters which I think is also relevant, where Screwtape explains that a lot of modern people don't really believe anything in a very consistent way. It completely tallies with my observation and the people who can't see what's going on, even when it's on a plate, are often ones most trapped by this:

I note what you say about guiding our patient's reading and taking care that he sees a good deal of his materialist friend. But are you not being a trifle naive? It sounds as if you supposed that argument was the way to keep him out of the Enemy's clutches. That might have been so if he had lived a few centuries earlier. At that time the humans still knew pretty well when a thing was proved and when it was not; and if it was proved they really believed it. They still connected thinking with doing and were prepared to alter their way of life as the result of a chain of reasoning. But what with the weekly press and other such weapons we have largely altered that. Your man has been accustomed, ever since he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing about together inside his head. He doesn't think of doctrines as primarily “true” of “false”, but as “academic” or “practical”, “outworn” or “contemporary”, “conventional” or “ruthless”. Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him from the Church. Don't waste time trying to make him think that materialism is true! Make him think it is strong, or stark, or courageous — that it is the philosophy of the future. That's the sort of thing he cares about.

I tried to empower thousands of children to be con-proof over the years
💐

Education about basic rights when facing misogyny, assault, VAWG would help any female. But one of the few places you can hear about it is here and it's called 'hateful'. I think calling feminism hateful enables the brainwashing and keeps people suffocated

'the grand meta-error: we have no intuitive sense that our minds work like this. We fondly imagine ourselves to be sharper, more attentive and more consistent than we truly are. Our own brains conspire in the illustion, filling the vast blind spots with plausible images'.

• from recent article in the New Scientist, by Tim Harford

• and sorry, his sum-up paragraph with a bit more of a positive take-away:

'Pay attention.; get some context; ask questions; stop and think.

Misinformation doesn't thrive because we can't spot the tricks. It thrives beause, all too often, we don't try. We don't try because we are confident that we already did'.

smoked duck I love to see a good CSLewis quote! He had a lot to say about obfuscation and self-delusion, all still deeply relevant.

I think its difficult to think that people care this little about women. Its really quite unbelievable.

I think their was the assumption that we were talking about fully transitioned transexuals and not fully intact trans gendered individuals.

And so we are where we are

@LemonSwan

I think its difficult to think that people care this little about women. Its really quite unbelievable.

I think their was the assumption that we were talking about fully transitioned transexuals and not fully intact trans gendered individuals.

And so we are where we are

Yes, this is still a huge misconception. I was speaking to someone just the other day about Hubbard in the Olympics, and the guy just looked at me like I had 3 heads, didn't want to believe that a guy would just 'claim' to be a woman, he must have had some surgery etc. The Olympics wouldn't let that happen etc. etc. It's very frustrating.

I've heard it said before also that for men, they have a real fear of castration, so the idea that a man would voluntarily choose to do that must mean he is suffering, needs support/ sympathy etc. So they automatically feel sorry for them.

Of course the fact that most TW keep their genitals intact doesn't seem to be widely known.

Also, it's just the absolutely unbelievability of it all. I can kind of understand that some people just don't want to believe that these crazy things are happening, because it upsets their ordered view of the world.

Yes, this is still a huge misconception. I was speaking to someone just the other day about Hubbard in the Olympics, and the guy just looked at me like I had 3 heads, didn't want to believe that a guy would just 'claim' to be a woman, he must have had some surgery etc. The Olympics wouldn't let that happen etc. etc.

It is patently obvious that Hubbard has not had certain surgery! Perhaps a photograph would illustrate the point!

Haha, yes the photo makes it pretty obvious.

This guy I spoke to hadn't seen or heard of what was going on, and was I guess an example of how most people aren't fully aware. His reaction was pure 'that would never happen', which is understandable given how ridiculous it is, but unsurprising.

Most of us assume that something as big and important like the Olympic committee would uphold certain standards of fairness, and that common sense would prevail . But it's all smoke and mirrors. Like the news report I heard on the radio the day Hubbard competed, it totally made it sound like Hubbard was a woman, so if you weren't really paying attention, or didn't do some digging, you would be easily fooled.

Anyway, talking to the guy I said it a few times and made sure he knew that Hubbard was a biological male who simply claimed to be a woman, that was it! But after a few minutes I could see his eyes glaze over, and then I start to feel like a crazy person going on about this.

That is part of the frustration, I have talked to people in real life about this, but even if they agree that it's wrong etc. they don't seem angry or to want to actually do anything to change this. So I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall.

Anyway, talking to the guy I said it a few times and made sure he knew that Hubbard was a biological male who simply claimed to be a woman, that was it! But after a few minutes I could see his eyes glaze over, and then I start to feel like a crazy person going on about this.

I have the same thing. I don't think people believe it when you explain what's going on. I dial it back a bit or risk ending up sounding fanatical or obsessed.

You're right though. People do think "oh it can't be just a man they must know what they're doing, they wouldn't let that happen..."

Same for schools indoctrinating kids with gender theory. Posters on the wall suggesting kids question their gender and think where they might be on the "spectrum". Parents just don't know and even if they do they don't understand.

Scary.