Selective abortion: How do they know which are girls?

[MiladyBerserko]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/269e1e18-f3c9-11eb-a2a3-afea84050239?shareToken=06d5753ab5a403e1c090df2ab58064aa

22 millions girls missing. Why are girls chosen and how do they know if sex is assigned at birth?

I'm so angry. Here we are being deleted and bullied about talking about old male cheats who steal women's places, and we are not supposed to know what sex a person is. But 22 million people knew well enough to choose to terminate their pregnancies. 44 million if we assume both parents had a say.

How do we know how many boys and girls are born in any given country each year?

If sex is assigned at birth, they can assign more babies as female to even out the missing numbers - would that not solve the problem?

The Yogyakarta Principles calls to “end to the registration of the sex and gender of the person in identity documents such as birth certificates, identification cards, passports and driver licences, and as part of their legal personality”.

How would we know how many boys and girls were being born and how many were being aborted or killed soon after birth?

I'm not 'pitching'. I am challenging an ideology that proposes that biological sex is trumped by gender feelings; and that sex is 'assigned' at birth, which is part of the same bollocks ideology.

You on the other hand are accusing people of transphobia on the basis that we recognise biological sex is the reason for selective abortion of all these baby girls.

And btw, if you think you can select which TRA views you think you can adopt, you will eventually be called transphobic yourself. Nothing but complete capitulation is good enough.

Trying to pitch selective abortion as a justification for trans phobia is just weird

pretending this is about trans phobia is just weird.

policing how women talk about it, is disturbing.

Like Mildady says, you "are accusing people of transphobia on the basis that we recognise biological sex is the reason for selective abortion of all these baby girls."

The thought of so many girls being exterminated before or at birth gives me a primal ache in my soul that I cannot put into words.

@CatherinaJTV

But you are incorrect that it would be simple to change the value human societies place on men and women. And it will be impossible if the ideology you believe is prevails.

I didn't say it was "simple". For example, China's 1.5 child policy reduced the perceived value of girls further, while their subsequent 2 child policy has decreased the male/female ratio in births.

I stand corrected, I misread your point.

This is just not the "gotcha" you think it is. Seriously. Trying to pitch selective abortion as a justification for trans phobia is just weird (and ever so slightly offputting).

But please indulge me on this claim of yours. In which way is recognising sex as the issue at the heart of sex-selective abortions a justification for transphobia?

I believe that sex is important for a limited number of issues. I believe that sex segregation is necessary for a limited number of reasons. My belief is rooted in my personal experience as well as my specific and general knowledge of the needs of female people.

These needs include privacy, dignity, safety, fairness and equality amongst other things.

An ideology that seeks to deny the existence of sex and whose proponents oppose recording sex, sex-specific provisions and sex segregation for any reason is diametrically opposed to having a society that seeks to meet the needs female people have. Needs made greater by living in a male-dominated world, which adds disadvantage, discrimination and oppression on the basis of their sex to the lives of females across the planet.

Now I realise that my belief that there is such a thing as the patriarchy, that we live in one and that we suffer for it as females and that there is therefore a need for a female liberation and equality movement are generally categorised as radical feminism, itself a belief system - an ideology.

But there is no phobia here. My belief is neither rooted in hating male people, nor in believing males are responsible for all ills in this world. It's not rooted in prejudice or intolerance.

In what way then is my analysis transphobic that implementing the doctrine of gender identity in our laws, policies and regulations is detrimental to the fight for female equality and specifically detrimental to addressing the sex-selective abortion of female unborns?

C'mon everyone, join me for a chorus of that same old tune, 'Everything is transphobic, yes it is!'

It's always the same.

TRAs lay out 'the rules' : sex is a spectrum, there is no way to define 'woman' or 'girl', everyone is 'assigned a gender at birth', to talk about biological sex is transphobic, gender identity is what counts etc etc.

Then on a thread like this, where the logical conclusions of those claims are exposed for the horseshit that they are, you get statements like 'the state of you' and TRAs will claim that obviously they don't mean this, or they don't mean that literally and how ridiculous we are to ever think that blah blah blah.

It's getting a bit tedious now though.

It because words can mean whatever the fuck they want them to, and no harm done, no...doesn't hurt anyone, be kind.

...until the stark, cold reality of this regressive ideology is bared, then they run shouting transphobia.

And posting snarky emoticons.

Mercy.

Yeah. Cos this is where MN puts all the posts that vaguely touch on this topic.

It ain't our choice to be segregated over here on the naughty step!

It's my understanding that it's way more than that. 117 million is the figure that I have read. Which includes women and girls who have been abducted, girl children who have been married off, etc.

And I don't give a fuck if someone calls it transphobic. This is not about individual males. This is about an ideology designed to obscure which sex is targeted by sexism and misogyny, whilst simultaneously making that sex unable to talk about it.

Quite right Datun. And still many of that sex wag their finger at members their own sex for talking about it, many of whom who have been victims of abuse and violence, also purely because of their sex. Fucking galling shit.

@Datun

It's my understanding that it's way more than that. 117 million is the figure that I have read. Which includes women and girls who have been abducted, girl children who have been married off, etc.

And I don't give a fuck if someone calls it transphobic. This is not about individual males. This is about an ideology designed to obscure which sex is targeted by sexism and misogyny, whilst simultaneously making that sex unable to talk about it.

The 117 million includes women lost as a result of abandonment at birth and resources being allocated to sons and not daughters as well as sex-selective abortions.

everything is about trans people here

You read charleys post and thats what you took away?

Wonderful no wonder this planet is fucked

everything is about trans people here

No it isn't. It's about an emerging and widespread ideology that obscures misogyny.

When women talking about eg FGM are shutdown with cries of transphobia, you can fuck off with saying it's about trans people.

Can we all take a moment to fully take in, on this Feminist board, the assertion by CatherinaJTV , who posts here fairly regularly, that:

"The value put on men and women could simply be changed."

Gosh ladies, why didn't we think of simply doing this? So simple! Just to simply change it! Let's put it all on our to-do lists for tomorrow!

Mindboggling, just mindboggling.

If you haven't seen this video already, I really do urge you to watch it.

Spoken by a women sold into sex slavery for Chinese men who can't find sex bc of sex selective abortion in China.

She managed to escape from all that through South Korean Missionaries. She ended up in a New York university and had to deal with student wokery and pronouns.

She feels that experience was madder than North Korean totalitarianism.

Brilliant posts @CharlieParley and a particularly good point about posters coming on to make inane criticisms of how things are discussed on this board but not actually adding anything of value to the discussion.

And the level of debate from TRA's! 'The state of you'. Wow. On one side, well evidenced discussion. On the other, 'the state of you'.

Gnc fucking chilling

And this

How will we know who is missing

I love trans activists. Every time one of them speaks or posts, it increases the likelihood of someone deciding our side has the better arguments.

@CatherinaJTV

But you are incorrect that it would be simple to change the value human societies place on men and women. And it will be impossible if the ideology you believe is prevails.

I didn't say it was "simple". For example, China's 1.5 child policy reduced the perceived value of girls further, while their subsequent 2 child policy has decreased the male/female ratio in births.

The value put on men and women could simply be changed. @CatherinaJTV you did say that it could be simple.

Do tell us how you propose to overthrow millenia of patriarchy overnight. It took South Korea thirty years to do, in a small country which is economically developed. How do you propose to do so in rural India, fast enough to avert the ticking time bomb of a skewed population?

So, as changing societal attitudes will take a generation or two, we need something which will work faster. This means legislation will be needed to stop it. In a TRA utopia where sex is meaningless, how do you do it?