Why is everyone gushing over Tom Daley knitting?

[EastWestWhosBest]

Man does a thing considered to be female and everyone is losing their minds over how ‘cute’ it is.

It is in fact possible to give a shit about more than one issue at a time. The more serious ones don't just cancel out all the other ones. Shrugging and mocking people for caring about getting rid of sex-based stereotypes doesn't help any cause whatsoever.

I haven't mocked anyone. I've questioned whether TD knitting is challenging negative stereotypes (is something being associated with elderly women a negative stereotype? That's certainly a question the explore from a feminist perspective) and I and a number of others have raised his attitudes towards women. A number of those who are pleased with his knitting have admitted they didn't even know about those attitudes. I get that those of you who enjoy knitting are pleased with him raising the craft profile, but you're going to get feminists raising his misogyny on the Sex and Gender discussion board. Not sure why that would be a surprise.

The amount of attention given to this in online knitting groups I belong to is ludicrous, although it does mirror the amount of attention given to men who post in them. Such a lot of fawning goes on, I’m not surprised to see TD lauded for picking up his needles. It’s Special Man Knitting, you see.

@FloralBunting

I haven't mocked anyone. I've questioned whether TD knitting is challenging negative stereotypes (is something being associated with elderly women a negative stereotype? That's certainly a question the explore from a feminist perspective) and I and a number of others have raised his attitudes towards women. A number of those who are pleased with his knitting have admitted they didn't even know about those attitudes. I get that those of you who enjoy knitting are pleased with him raising the craft profile, but you're going to get feminists raising his misogyny on the Sex and Gender discussion board. Not sure why that would be a surprise.

It’s not about raising the profile of knitting - it’s about a man in the public eye doing something stereotypically for women and enjoying it. That’s it, it doesn’t cancel out him paying for surrogacy, it doesn’t make him an angel among men. It makes him someone openly enjoying a hobby most wouldn’t associate with men.

@Saucery

The amount of attention given to this in online knitting groups I belong to is ludicrous, although it does mirror the amount of attention given to men who post in them. Such a lot of fawning goes on, I’m not surprised to see TD lauded for picking up his needles. It’s Special Man Knitting, you see.

Is it not in the same company of all female painter and decorating teams though? Something traditionally male dominated that women are taking on?

It's a pretty low bar, then, isn't it?

Look, I'm out of sorts, because the level of sexist bullshittery on the BBC and elsewhere is jaw dropping at the moment, so I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I haven't done any form of needlecraft for years myself. I'm just not seeing why this is any kind of gain for women. Perhaps I'll see it tomorrow when I'm less fucked off.

@FloralBunting

It's a pretty low bar, then, isn't it?

Look, I'm out of sorts, because the level of sexist bullshittery on the BBC and elsewhere is jaw dropping at the moment, so I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I haven't done any form of needlecraft for years myself. I'm just not seeing why this is any kind of gain for women. Perhaps I'll see it tomorrow when I'm less fucked off.

It is a low bar. It’s always a low bar.

Well, I'm heartsick of the low bar today, tbh. Utterly.

@RedToothBrush

He definitely is challenging stereotypes in knitting though. The surrogacy issue is abhorrent, and a totally separate issue. He’s not completely without fault for being seen knitting a couple of times and I don’t think anyone is suggesting otherwise.

I don't give a fuck about hobbies.

And whilst breaking stereotypes are important, I'd rather not santise or normalise baby traffickers as being cool or cute anymore than I would support Prince Andrew as being a 'bit hard done by' and having an issue with an inability to sweat. Why? Because ultimately our priorities should be able prevent physical and mental harm to people especially those in more vulnerable groups.

This is a very privileged man who can do whatever the fuck he likes. Great if he chooses knitting. Not so great if he chooses buying a baby and then trying to change the law to make it easier to buy babies in this country.

I do which people would see it for what it is. A case of trying to build an image and PR for a man who buys babies to further his post diving ambitions...

Who do you want to challenge gender roles then? Which man in the public eye would you be happy with?

I've been following his 'made by' on Instagram for ages and it's lovely. Full of happiness, cute pictures and messages about how it's helped his mental health in lock down. What's not to love.

@FloralBunting

It's a pretty low bar, then, isn't it?

Look, I'm out of sorts, because the level of sexist bullshittery on the BBC and elsewhere is jaw dropping at the moment, so I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I haven't done any form of needlecraft for years myself. I'm just not seeing why this is any kind of gain for women. Perhaps I'll see it tomorrow when I'm less fucked off.

I’m not celebrating it as a massive leap forward in women’s rights or anything. I came on a thread specifically about knitting, and talked about how it’s always nice to see a traditionally masculine-coded man doing something usually seen as “feminine”. That’s all. I’m not fawning all over him, I’m not saying it cancels out all of the other shit, I merely contributed to the conversation in the thread.

It’s fairly tiring if we can’t talk about something specific any more without having to caveat it with “well of course I care about being GC, surrogacy, FGM, breast cancer, suicide attempt rates etc etc”; and even then there would probably be someone come along saying “well you didn’t mention ovarian cancer, don’t you care about that?”

Look, I'm out of sorts, because the level of sexist bullshittery on the BBC and elsewhere is jaw dropping at the moment

Totally agree with you there. I've just 10 mins ago registered a complaint with those BBC arseholes on that very matter. Thing is, if saying "Yay, look - knitting is great for everyone, including young men!" were actually doing something to promote TD, I wouldn't say it, knowing what I now know about the surrogacy. It's just that I can see why people want to point out a well-known young male person knitting.

I’m not celebrating it as a massive leap forward in women’s rights or anything. I came on a thread specifically about knitting, and talked about how it’s always nice to see a traditionally masculine-coded man doing something usually seen as “feminine”. That’s all. I’m not fawning all over him, I’m not saying it cancels out all of the other shit, I merely contributed to the conversation in the thread.

It’s fairly tiring if we can’t talk about something specific any more without having to caveat it with “well of course I care about being GC, surrogacy, FGM, breast cancer, suicide attempt rates etc etc”; and even then there would probably be someone come along saying “well you didn’t mention ovarian cancer, don’t you care about that?”

Yy - exactly.

I contributed to the conversation on this thread too, which was specifically about the undoubted overblown excitement for TD knitting that I've seen in other places. This thread wasn't asking 'what do you think of TD knitting?' Tbh, if it was, I'd have probably ignored it because I don't think it's a big deal, but the question was about the reaction to it, and as such, I think the context of TD's wider attitudes is relevant.

I don't have a purity test for 'challenging gender stereotypes'. I have a huge soft spot for Sally Challen's sons, Jack Appleby, heck even Harry Styles. I just don't think renting women and buying babies is something that can or should be waved away because men knitting is a bit unusual. I think the behavioral stereotypes are far more important to challenge, and I make no apology for saying so. It would be no good for women at all if lots of men took up stereotypically 'feminine' hobbies while retaining their staggering sense of entitlement, as TD has done.

Didn’t fishermen traditionally knit and sew? Handy for mending sails and nets. Also a good hobby to keep hands busy - we have some beautifully carved carpentry that an ancestor made whilst on the waves.

Besides... www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/heartwarming-photos-talented-edinburgh-security-guard-knitting-boots-premature-children-643274

My Grampy was a keen knitter and crocheter. He knitted all his own socks, vests and jumpers and crochet me, my sister and cousins ponchos. I had to teach myself to crochet because he died before I got interested in it and my Granny couldn’t do it. She taught me how to knit, though.

I don’t particularly like Tom Daley’s views on a lot of things, however I am in awe of his talent with a knitting needle.

@FloralBunting

I contributed to the conversation on this thread too, which was specifically about the undoubted overblown excitement for TD knitting that I've seen in other places. This thread wasn't asking 'what do you think of TD knitting?' Tbh, if it was, I'd have probably ignored it because I don't think it's a big deal, but the question was about the reaction to it, and as such, I think the context of TD's wider attitudes is relevant.

I don't have a purity test for 'challenging gender stereotypes'. I have a huge soft spot for Sally Challen's sons, Jack Appleby, heck even Harry Styles. I just don't think renting women and buying babies is something that can or should be waved away because men knitting is a bit unusual. I think the behavioral stereotypes are far more important to challenge, and I make no apology for saying so. It would be no good for women at all if lots of men took up stereotypically 'feminine' hobbies while retaining their staggering sense of entitlement, as TD has done.

Nobody is waving it away though. This polarisation where everyone is either all good or all bad is going to ruin us.

@Disfordarkchocolate

I've been following his 'made by' on Instagram for ages and it's lovely. Full of happiness, cute pictures and messages about how it's helped his mental health in lock down. What's not to love.

Oh I have no problem with him knitting, I like anyone doing something to help their mental health. It’s not TD and what he’s doing I have even a tiny problem with.

It’s the people fawning and gushing over it. My FB and Twitter feed is full of ‘OMG, I love him so much, look at what he’s doing, it’s so cute 🥰’.
Like it’s some amazing thing and not just someone partaking in a hobby.

Nobody is waving it away though. This polarisation where everyone is either all good or all bad is going to ruin us.

I would really appreciate it if you stopped suggesting that mentioning TD's attitudes to women in the context of him 'challenging sexist stereotypes' is polarizing anything. It's not.

@FloralBunting

Nobody is waving it away though. This polarisation where everyone is either all good or all bad is going to ruin us.

I would really appreciate it if you stopped suggesting that mentioning TD's attitudes to women in the context of him 'challenging sexist stereotypes' is polarizing anything. It's not.

It is though - to the extent you’re willing to argue he isnt challenging gender stereotypes by knitting, at the Olympics, watched all over the world, and it’s just a bunch of silly knitters excited that he’s promoting their hobby.

Perhaps I'll see it tomorrow when I'm less fucked off

No you won’t

I’ve been knitting in public (on my commute) for years no-one’s ever called me cute.

Where are my plaudits, damnit?! I demand my adoring public!

I disagree, if the women's swimming team was sitting knitting there would be a lot of media attention because it's associated with the elderly now