R4 today covering LH now and later

[Testingtimes1]

Interview with Joanna Harper later.

That was a rhetorical wonder just to be clear.

That tweet has enraged me - have sent a long complaint to the BBC via the website. Takes a lot to enrage me nowadays, seen too much to be shocked or surprised, but that took the biscuit #Saynotohate

How bloody dare they?

The people who were born female and identify as trans men are still competing in the female category. I assume they have not used hormones yet

Discus thrower in Paralympics I think, Ness can't remember surname.

Non binary people still competing in their correct sex. (If they are female non binary) we need to take them out of it.

LH had a chance before as a weightlifter as a man. Already completed at a reasonably high level as a man. This makes me so cross.

[quote EastWestWhosBest]Interesting replies to this tweet.

twitter.com/bbcsport/status/1421893701031301124?s=21[/quote]

But... they're all still there. So not hate. I think this is the thing that's making everyone think.

I'm glad it doesn't sound like WH are discussing it today, instead focussing on an athlete who sadly has missed out due to testing positive for Covid.

And many other things that relate to women's experiences, including something about the "gender implications of vaccine passports" which I assume is actually sex.

Laurel Hubbard is such a vulnerable minority that, when Hubbard caused a serious car crash Hubbard got away without a conviction PLUS got Hubbard's name suppressed to "avoid the distress of dealing with social media comments while training for the Olympics"

i.stuff.co.nz/national/114218682/victims-of-laurel-hubbard-crash-appalled-at-sentence-and-suppression?fbclid=IwAR07g-qZY_pwW-Lt3tRyfsaS5OcLotHzWxKnA8jn23eUVC2Dc-IbY66ZcvI

Have complained to the BBC via their website too, about the R4 coverage.

So much for their reputation for unbiased reporting.

De-fund the BBC I say...

@Floisme
My fear is that by the time the next Olympics comes around we won't even know who the transwomen athletes are. There are signs of that already. I think the time to make a fuss is now.

Yep, the transgender archer competing for Canada has a Wikipedia page that doesn't mention them being transgender at all. Also not listed as one of the transgender Olympians on Twitter's shockingly one-sided (conveniently ignoring all of the more recent research indicating a clear advantage) 'event': www.twitter.com/i/events/1412876072064978944

As for reducing from 10 to 5, apparently transgender athletes are calling for an end to all hormone requirements according to this very uncritical article: www.insider.com/trans-olympic-athletes-no-longer-need-surgery-hormones-still-required-2021-6 so it would literally just be on any male person's say so that they identify as a woman and then they can compete.

Incidentally, that article is hilariously bad. We need science writers from the actual sciences. The author claims that scientists are pushing back 'against the idea that someone's assigned sex has anything to do with strength and physical endurance' and to prove it, it links to an article saying women live longer.

It's painful at this point.

@ChateauMargaux

Why do we not hear from women on this.. in the words of Ruth Bader Ginsburg 'Women belong In places where decisions are being made". If we are not part of the discussion, the solutions cannot represent our needs.

This - so much this.

I bet the BBC don’t do that for anyone else. Has anyone ever seen them take that approach before?

Was a discussion about this on R5 about 30 minutes ago, with Gail Emms. She made the point that for all the focus on fairness, it wasn't fair if it didn't work both ways (ie that someone born a woman had as much chance of being selected as a man as vice versa).

Previously was an interview with the sports correspondent from the Guardian who was very clear about the emphasis on testosterone being insufficient AND brought up the comparison between fastest times of Dina Asher Smith and 16 year old boys.

@quiteathome

The people who were born female and identify as trans men are still competing in the female category. I assume they have not used hormones yet

Discus thrower in Paralympics I think, Ness can't remember surname.

Non binary people still competing in their correct sex. (If they are female non binary) we need to take them out of it.

LH had a chance before as a weightlifter as a man. Already completed at a reasonably high level as a man. This makes me so cross.

These people have some inexpressible quality which means they are just expected to get on with things.

'Inclusion' is not a symmetrical concept for the IOC.

Have there ever been any examples of someone who was born a woman competing at Olympic level as a man? If not, I wonder why that is?

If it's all about feelings and inclusivity, there is an obvious answer - just introduce a handicap system so that the advantage that cis* men have over trans men is addressed. I'm sure that this will be a simple thing to sort out, and no male athletes will complain...

*Don't usually use this term, but I think it would be appropriate in this context and the cis men would just be happy to be inclusive and kind.

@WobblyLondoner the athletes who are born female but transgender compete in the womens competition and no one has a problem with that providing they have not been taking testosterone.

The canadian soccer player was born female as far as I can tell, the archer.. not.. and I do wish they were coming under scrutiny too. Runners who were assigned female at birth due to DSD but have XY chromosomes are still permitted to compete in the 100 and 200m races for females.. but I don't know if there are any competitors who fall into that category in this competition.

And I am saddened that so much of my emotional energy is spent searching for the facts on this but we should not just let this go.

DH read the BBC article this morning and thought it was great that a person born female was managing to compete with the men - then he twigged that actually it was the other way round and he was rather outraged. He's more aware of what's been happening than the average person I'd think, yet the article is so muddy that his first impression was that Hubbard is a transman.

@supercritter No, that does NOT have to be said I'm GC and completely against men competing against women in sport, but that is name-calling and bullying, on a playground level. It doesn't help anyone.

@WobblyLondoner

Was a discussion about this on R5 about 30 minutes ago, with Gail Emms. She made the point that for all the focus on fairness, it wasn't fair if it didn't work both ways (ie that someone born a woman had as much chance of being selected as a man as vice versa).

Previously was an interview with the sports correspondent from the Guardian who was very clear about the emphasis on testosterone being insufficient AND brought up the comparison between fastest times of Dina Asher Smith and 16 year old boys.

The one I listened to was a 5 min slot at around 8am I think. The later one sounds more balanced.