Mixed 4 x 400m relay heats

[NotBadConsidering]

Just on now.

First heat. All teams started with men first, then women 2nd leg. Nigeria then gambled, but a man 3rd when all other teams had a woman on the 3rd. The Nigerian man powered ahead making the women look very slow. He gave his team mate a 50m head start for the final leg. She was passed by the first man by about 250m and then all the others in the home straight and came last (USA just disqualified).

Second heat about to start.

@meg70

I think you need to buy 1984 for the Christmas stocking

It also highlighted how utterly wasteful it is, both emotionally, time-wise, resource-wise and common sense-wise, for organisations to being trying to “prove” that males have an advantage. In everyday competition, on the ground, every single one of those teams would have discussed how best to minimise the loss of time the two women. There would not have been a single minute wasted on “maybe Polish runner XX is faster than American runner XY, let’s see if that eventuates.” But the IOC seem to think it’s a worthy discussion to have .

I think this kind of event is a little dispiriting. It just reminds everyone that men run a faster race than women do; better to have separate competitions. Now if they could come up with a way that women and men could somehow show different but equally valid forms of skill, we could really applaud.

I wonder if having the women run 300m and the men 500m would make it more interesting...

I love athletics and quite like the idea of a mixed relay in theory. However, I found I didn't like watching it when the Nigerians ran their competitors in a different order so a man was running against the women and vice versa. It did highlight the speed difference dramatically. I also noticed how the men seemed to have a different running style to the women, which was really interesting. I hadn't ever noticed that before.

Won’t this help the GC discussion though when eventually men are up against trans women rather than born females?
I think once the problem affects men ( trans men won’t pose a similar issue to mens sports) it will get a more critical analysis. I guess it’s still mixed if it’s men and trans race but people will see the problem with division on gender not sex hopefully?

I wonder if having the women run 300m and the men 500m would make it more interesting...

Jess Ennis-Hill said something similar but the others seemed to shut her up.

I found it a very interesting race to watch, and an interesting conversation to have. I liked seeing the contrast between what men and women at the top of their game look like - what does a powerful muscular male runner look like standing next to a powerful, muscular female runner, what do their running styles look like, etc. And the differences are stark when you saw the Nigerian man power away from the woman, and then the Nigerian women get mowed down by all the men.

I liked it also because it provokes the inevitable conversation that I want everyone to be having, obviously

@rosy71

I wonder if having the women run 300m and the men 500m would make it more interesting...

Jess Ennis-Hill said something similar but the others seemed to shut her up.

I liked how she was talking about it, and I agreed with her most out of the four commentators. I also think she’s an entirely wonderful human, so she doesn’t ever have to say much to get me onside

@TeiTetua

I think this kind of event is a little dispiriting. It just reminds everyone that men run a faster race than women do; better to have separate competitions. Now if they could come up with a way that women and men could somehow show different but equally valid forms of skill, we could really applaud.

In athletics the fastest, often the strongest person wins. That favours men.

If you have a sport where, say, the most flexible person wins, then women will be better than men at it, and it will be so much more exciting to watch women competing against each other. Gymnastics or synchronised swimming spring to mind.

The mixed archery events where interesting - no difference between the men and women's performances. Perhaps there are more examples? I haven't seen a mixed doubles tennis match for a while.

@Claymorekick

Maybe i am missing the point but if every team has 2 men and 2 women running in whatever order, does it not even itself out over the 4 legs? So if the Nigerian team had ordered themselves the same way the other teams did, they would still probably finished in the same position?

I realise that the point of the OP is that it clearly demonstrates the differences between the sexes when they are actually running against each other

I would have thought so. It's interesting to watch.

I think it does help highlight the obvious, but also highlight why it’s such an obvious difference that it’s a question that shouldn’t even be asked. It does help the GC argument but it shouldn’t even need to be an argument.

A 4x100m mixed relay would be more interesting. Smaller margins of difference plus more technical changeovers.

I think it’s hard to watch because there is less of a precedent for it in athletics. In swimming it makes more sense. All swimmers grow up doing mixed relays. At our swimming club the club night competition ends every week with a mixed relay of all the swimmers. The coach lines them all up and divides them equally into three groups by sex and ability because he knows them all so well. Occasionally he will throw in a handicap like making the teenagers swim with four kick boards, or insisting on butterfly for some etc. He invariably gets it right and it’s usually close. The kids love it, and those swimming in the mixed relay will have done similar and will enjoy the team aspect of that.

[quote LemonSwan]@meg70

I think you need to buy 1984 for the Christmas stocking[/quote]
YES!

@rosy71

I love athletics and quite like the idea of a mixed relay in theory. However, I found I didn't like watching it when the Nigerians ran their competitors in a different order so a man was running against the women and vice versa. It did highlight the speed difference dramatically. I also noticed how the men seemed to have a different running style to the women, which was really interesting. I hadn't ever noticed that before.

The different running style is explained by hip alignment - women's bodies have a completely different hip to thigh angle. It's very obvious in running, but is even more pronounced in cycling and other sports where leg strength is important.

It explains why it's not possible to negate sex advantage by balancing for height and weight. The very stark skeletal differences mean that females can give birth, males can run (and cycle) faster. Not to mention muscle twitch speed, lung capacity, etc etc etc ad blood nauseum.

We all know this. We have always known this. Why the IOC insists on trying to tell us it has to be proven I have no idea.

Now if they could come up with a way that women and men could somehow show different but equally valid forms of skill, we could really applaud.

Torville and Dean?

I thought it was a great example if why we have separate sex categories. The commentaries all knew the difference between a male and a female. We were discussing how the IOC can't see this when they have this event.

The mixed triathlon is on now. The BBC live blog understands:

I'm really not liking these mixed races. However, I say bring it on. A sure fire way to show just how much advantage a male body has over a female.

I enjoyed the mixed triathlon (and I don't usually like sport) Congratulations Team GB.

Flora Duffy and Georgia Taylor Brown were magnificent in the women's triathlon. I was pleased Flora Duffy won- imagine being your country's first gold medallist.

They had swimming mixed relay overnight. What a picture.

twitter.com/sharrond62/status/1421305556862599169?s=21

I know you are discussing this from a particular view point and this is off the main topic. But my child is a swimmer who competes and they really enjoy taking part in the mixed relays. I have been surprised how much the boys squads and girls squads support each other and how in competitions its the whole club that wins or loses so the boys dont see the girls team as lesser. They all love being picked in a mixed relay and sometimes the strongest swim is from a girl - as in the males of each team are evenly matched so its the difference in the girls that makes a win. I just thought this might cheer people up who werent enjoying mixed relays.

I think the mixed relays are great, and must be a lot of fun at the club level.

But it does rather highlight the difference, and the very concept means an acceptance that there are males and females not just people....

It's too early in the day for me to make a coherent argument but I think my point is it's not very coherent!

@FemaleAndLearning

I thought it was a great example if why we have separate sex categories. The commentaries all knew the difference between a male and a female. We were discussing how the IOC can't see this when they have this event.

Just repeating what @FemaleAndLearning said.

Mixed relays seem a bit forced to me. Very useful to illustrate sex differences - lack of them may have helped generate our current mess - but it's two quite different events jammed together for no obvious reason. Like a combined horse+dog race or something. Shows the difference, but they don't complement each other and distracts from both.

But maybe it's just novel and we'll come to love it.

Actually, Elephantsparade's comment has won me round. This is for the competitors. Something to bring male and female athletes together, who otherwise would have little reason to interact. The same logic as bringing all these different sports together as the Olympics themselves. The horse+dog metaphor fails because all involved here are people.

Watched the heat video with husband. He commented that the xy individual didn't even win. Explained women has good at endurance so that may even things out a bit.
We then watched 2016 800m. 3 males blow all the women out of the water. Quote husband.
"That's a man. With a man's body definitely. Why is this being allowed? Why isn't anyone doing anything about it."