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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Sexual Abuse group including TW

50 replies

WinglessSonglessBird · 30/07/2021 06:46

Where I live there is a new group for those who have been sexually abused and assaulted. It is for women. However, literally at the bottom it says: "This group is open to cis-women, trans-women, and non-binary folks." And that part is literally underlined TWICE, no joke.

While I do think there are very kind, legit TW and they shouldn't be discriminated against etc, I do agree that some will exploit the whole trans movement to violate women's spaces.

Plus, this is a group for abuse/assault for women, who were obviously primarily hurt by men. I am rather open-minded and accepting of all different types of people, and I see both sides of issues generally; however, I do agree that sex matters, especially for girls/women, as an abuse and assault survivor myself. I, for one, wouldn't feel comfortable going to an abuse group with men, even if they are girly as hell. I've known some VERY feminine gay guys back in high school and I still wouldn't have gone to an ABUSE group with them. However, maybe it needs to be on a case-by-case, person-by-person basis. I do not know.

Also, I will tell you that within the last year, even in newspapers etc, the language has changed...as far as specifically pointing out: cis, trans, nonbinary, as this group notice did, where you never saw it before. It's just so strange to me. Also, even if you are a TW and were abused, which is horrible, aren't you still gonna have different issues from that cuz you are a biological male? Isn't the psychology and all things related to the abuse slightly different? Same as why they separate the men and women's abuse group. Would a transman wanna go to a man's abuse group? I doubt it. Maybe though. I could be wrong. Trans people don't want a third group. There is no good solution for anyone. However I will say as a trans accepting (legit tw, tm, that are nice, not abusers or people trying to take advantage of loopholes etc) that I as a semi-noncomforming woman (dunno wtf I am, don't really care, I'm me), would be uncomfortable and either not go or wouldn't be able to share.

Saw this today and thought it pertinent. Also cuz this stuff is becoming more and more. I do not live in a big city. It's medium or medium small. And I can't put my finger on it, but the fact it is a group for sexual abuse/assault for women, and they let just anyone in...it seems semi-abusive itself to me somehow. However I'm not trying to prejudice or a bigot etc. I'm just trying to understand.

I don't know if I should complain. I am no prominent person in my society. I guarantee my opinion would be shrugged off cuz I'm a girl and everyone knows I've had mental health issues so I'm a crazy girl; I know I wouldn't be heard, never am, own fault. Just fyi, this stuff is creeping in everywhere, even smaller towns for support groups ffs!

I wasn't planning on going to the group, just noted the wording.

OP posts:

KevinBaconsJeans · 30/07/2021 07:07

That's not a women's group, it's a mixed sex group. I dgaf how they "identify" (whatever that even means), women's spaces are for women. Maybe we need to stop being so bloody accommodating and start making it clear that they aren't welcome. As it stands, some women will self-exclude once they realise it's mixed sex.

How long until men who know they're men start bringing discrimination cases against these women's groups, because they're suddenly the only ones who aren't allowed in?! And bang goes even the pretence of women's spaces. We will have absolutely nothing.

Sorry OP, I've woken up cross today!

cariadlet · 30/07/2021 07:23

I agree with everything that you said and think that you should complain. Write to the organisation and say what you've told us. Suss out your friends and see who agrees with you so that you can encourage them to write.

I've started to complain everyone I get a form which asks for my gender instead of my sex or I buy a product intended for women which is scared to use the word.

I get replies full of platitudes which brush off my concerns but if enough of us do write then eventually there will be a tipping point where companies and organisations realise that most people are fed up of this bullshit.

ArabellaScott · 30/07/2021 08:36

the fact it is a group for sexual abuse/assault for women, and they let just anyone in...it seems semi-abusive

Agree. If it's a mixed sex group then it should be made VERY clear.

ArabellaScott · 30/07/2021 08:39

'Research conducted by the Women’s Resource Centre found that women who had used women-only services greatly valued this support. An independent poll of 1,000 women across the UK found that 97% of those interviewed thought a female rape victim should have the choice of accessing a women-only support service.'

Taken from Rape Crisis, sorry, I can't find a link to the poll, but might be worth quoting this if you do complain, OP.

rapecrisis.org.uk/about-us/why-women-girls/

TalkingOutYerArse · 30/07/2021 10:22

Yep. Not a womans group. And you can bet your savings on it being invaded by the male sex soon enough.

AlfonsoTheMango · 30/07/2021 10:36

It's not a women's group - it's an "open to anyone" group.

Tibtom · 30/07/2021 10:56

If it is a women's group then of course men (which includes transwomen) should discriminated against in that they should not be able to attend. If it is a mixed sex group then men should not be excluded based on gender - their is no provision within the Equality Act that allows for this.

plodalong12 · 30/07/2021 11:02

Non-binary folks? So anyone then?

Tibtom · 30/07/2021 11:04

While I do think there are very kind, legit TW and they shouldn't be discriminated against etc, I do agree that some will exploit the whole trans movement to violate women's spaces.

Any TW who attends a group with abused women is not 'very kind'. The 'woman' bit in the term 'transwoman' is appropriation and no reflection or reality.

manatsu · 30/07/2021 18:58

What worries me is some dude saying he's non-binary, which requires simply saying he's non-binary, and being one of the men who gets off on women recounting stories of rape. And that's absolutely horrific to think about.

See the last few screenshots here: www.reddit.com/r/BanFemaleHateSubs/comments/otzbnn/rrapeworld_tw/
(warning: upsetting content)

GNCQ · 30/07/2021 19:49

Yes given the prevalence of rape porn (a high proportion of views on pornhub are rape themed) I'd be incredibly concerned about male people self-identifying into a rape crisis group for women.

For all you know they're there to get their rocks off in private, or there for ideas.

GNCQ · 30/07/2021 19:50

Why can't men "who identify as women" simply go to their own groups or just go along with men who don't identify as women. Likewise with men who identify as NB.

BlueberryCheezecake · 30/07/2021 21:08

Complain to who? The group organisers are entitled to include whoever they choose. And why on earth complain when you have no intention of joining the group anyway? That's just disingenuous.

BlueberryCheezecake · 30/07/2021 21:10

@ArabellaScott

the fact it is a group for sexual abuse/assault for women, and they let just anyone in...it seems semi-abusive

Agree. If it's a mixed sex group then it should be made VERY clear.

Seems like they have? OP says it's written on the group info. And it's even underlined.

ArabellaScott · 30/07/2021 21:19

there is a new group for those who have been sexually abused and assaulted. It is for women

Many, if not most people who are not steeped in the arguments are unaware of what 'cis-women, trans-women, and non-binary' means. Many people I've spoken to think a transwoman IS a female-born woman. The words 'mixed sex' should be up there, very clearly, so no woman finds herself in a group she doesn't want to be in.

FloralBunting · 30/07/2021 21:33

I do think that it could be clearer, yes, but as the cheesecake says, they've made it clear according to the ideology. Of course, for many women they'll discover what that means only after joining, whicb is your point OP.

Now, I don't mind all that much if mixed sex groups exist. We all have different needs and boundaries and comfort levels.

What I find vomit-inducing disingenuous is the TRAs who glom on these threads gloating that these groups are 'inclusive before you joined, find a group that excludes instead!' but will do everything within their power to block women from having any groups or spaces to themselves.

Anotheruser02 · 30/07/2021 21:56

What I find vomit-inducing disingenuous is the TRAs who glom on these threads gloating that these groups are 'inclusive before you joined, find a group that excludes instead!' but will do everything within their power to block women from having any groups or spaces to themselves.

Too true.

Original poster

WinglessSonglessBird · 31/07/2021 02:39

Thanks for the feedback. Essentially, yes, it is a mixed-sex abuse group. Which, as said, is ok for some people. It does need to be clearer from the beginning of advertising it, is the only real issue. And it's only been this past year where I've noticed the terms cis, trans, nb in all kinds of things.

I still think lots of women and even men might be put off by a mixed sex abuse group. I may just say they need to be blunt and say it is a mixed sex group at the start, that also welcomes tw and nb. A mixed sex group has a right to be there; it just needs to be stated clearer. However then the whole twaw thing might be brought up. I guess I'll just let it go, as at the bottom it is underlined as for ciswomen, tw, nb. I guess it's just a sign of the times/language changing. Maybe I'm getting old lol. Group is for ages 16 up, so younger people prob wouldn't bat an eye at it. I only recently started really thinking about all this sex/gender stuff, as before I'm like, oh a man wants to be a woman and is girly as hell (like gay guys), cool, whatever.

Anyway thanks for the thoughts. In the scheme of things it might not be that big a deal. Moreso, it shows how this stuff is pervasive in society where it wasn't before, from a sociological standpoint. I just couldn't help but notice it a few days ago and it got me thinking, especially since it's an abuse group. It's not a book club or etc. Though tw who have been abused need support too, so I see both sides argh

OP posts:

OurMamInHavianas · 31/07/2021 06:11

What about the (biological) women who don’t identify as Cis, like myself and many of the women on this board?

We’re not Ciswomen.
We’re not transwomen.

We’re not Non-binary.

Can you ask them where the provision is for us?

KittenKong · 31/07/2021 07:46

No open to trans men? What are they thinking?

Naunet · 31/07/2021 09:57

Not a chance would I talk about my sexual abuse in front of a man who might be getting off on it. Women just won’t use these services and it’ll be left to the creeps and their wank fantasies.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2021 10:04

As it stands, some women will self-exclude once they realise it's mixed sex.

Most women would. I would be concerned about the make up of such a mixed sex group, and the vulnerability of some of the users.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2021 10:05

After the women who weren't comfortable with males there self excluded.

Tibtom · 31/07/2021 13:26

@Naunet

Not a chance would I talk about my sexual abuse in front of a man who might be getting off on it. Women just won’t use these services and it’ll be left to the creeps and their wank fantasies.

Who then, strangely, won't seem quite so interested in it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/07/2021 13:45

Who then, strangely, won't seem quite so interested in it.

There will be misguided young women who will feel that their comfort comes second to "inclusion". They are my concern.

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