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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexual Abuse group including TW

50 replies

WinglessSonglessBird · 30/07/2021 06:46

Where I live there is a new group for those who have been sexually abused and assaulted. It is for women. However, literally at the bottom it says: "This group is open to cis-women, trans-women, and non-binary folks." And that part is literally underlined TWICE, no joke.

While I do think there are very kind, legit TW and they shouldn't be discriminated against etc, I do agree that some will exploit the whole trans movement to violate women's spaces.

Plus, this is a group for abuse/assault for women, who were obviously primarily hurt by men. I am rather open-minded and accepting of all different types of people, and I see both sides of issues generally; however, I do agree that sex matters, especially for girls/women, as an abuse and assault survivor myself. I, for one, wouldn't feel comfortable going to an abuse group with men, even if they are girly as hell. I've known some VERY feminine gay guys back in high school and I still wouldn't have gone to an ABUSE group with them. However, maybe it needs to be on a case-by-case, person-by-person basis. I do not know.

Also, I will tell you that within the last year, even in newspapers etc, the language has changed...as far as specifically pointing out: cis, trans, nonbinary, as this group notice did, where you never saw it before. It's just so strange to me. Also, even if you are a TW and were abused, which is horrible, aren't you still gonna have different issues from that cuz you are a biological male? Isn't the psychology and all things related to the abuse slightly different? Same as why they separate the men and women's abuse group. Would a transman wanna go to a man's abuse group? I doubt it. Maybe though. I could be wrong. Trans people don't want a third group. There is no good solution for anyone. However I will say as a trans accepting (legit tw, tm, that are nice, not abusers or people trying to take advantage of loopholes etc) that I as a semi-noncomforming woman (dunno wtf I am, don't really care, I'm me), would be uncomfortable and either not go or wouldn't be able to share.

Saw this today and thought it pertinent. Also cuz this stuff is becoming more and more. I do not live in a big city. It's medium or medium small. And I can't put my finger on it, but the fact it is a group for sexual abuse/assault for women, and they let just anyone in...it seems semi-abusive itself to me somehow. However I'm not trying to prejudice or a bigot etc. I'm just trying to understand.

I don't know if I should complain. I am no prominent person in my society. I guarantee my opinion would be shrugged off cuz I'm a girl and everyone knows I've had mental health issues so I'm a crazy girl; I know I wouldn't be heard, never am, own fault. Just fyi, this stuff is creeping in everywhere, even smaller towns for support groups ffs!

I wasn't planning on going to the group, just noted the wording.

OP posts:
Riggsisadino · 31/07/2021 13:50

What I also don't understand is why they don't allow trans men ? I have a close family member who is a trans man and was sexually assaulted. I helped him access services and there was nothing ! He couldn't go to the women's group as 'he wasn't a women' despite the fact he said he was biologically female (he ended up pregnant as a result found out at a late stage). He also wasn't allowed to the men's group which he enquirered about second cause he wasn't a man ! So it actually excludes some biological women to. We still struggled getting support for him know

Chickenyhead · 31/07/2021 17:06

I think as long as there is a separate group for biological sexed women, then this is fine.

When I last received rape crisis counselling it was by sex, no men in the building, secret location. I was very grateful for that. I couldn't be in a waiting room with a male sex person, I would have fled. Not because I am phobic, just because the very need for the counselling was a man by sex raping me violently and repeatedly.

I still struggle with being alone with unknown males of any type. I don't have much control over my flee response.

MagpiePi · 31/07/2021 17:15

Won't it just end up as a -men's group- group for people identifying as women?

So, resources allocated to to help women, won't actually help any women. But at least some woke boxes can be ticked, and that's what matters.

happydays2345 · 31/07/2021 19:40

Brilliant that they are so inclusive, thanks for sharing 😊

Chickenyhead · 31/07/2021 19:43

Ha ha isn't it sooooooo fantastic raped women cannot avoid men. Hooray! Your contribution is shameful.

happydays2345 · 31/07/2021 20:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

happydays2345 · 31/07/2021 20:09

This reply has been deleted

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Chickenyhead · 31/07/2021 20:10

Yuck, just vile.

happydays2345 · 31/07/2021 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Chickenyhead · 31/07/2021 21:24

Ridiculing rape victims does indeed indicate someone who I may consider to be vile.

Anotheruser02 · 31/07/2021 21:36

@happydays2345

People not having an identical opinion to you does not make them vile. Grow up.
You laughed at someone who is upset about the loss of rape services and shared her reasons for feeling that way, now SHE should grow up?

People not agreeing isn't vile, I've seen Chickeny be disagreed with before without calling the person vile, it was obviously a response to you mocking her after she shared something personal and relevant not in response to someone having a different opinion.

happydays2345 · 01/08/2021 09:01

No I didn't at all. Show me where?

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 09:03

Your posts have been deleted by mnhq.

MondayYogurt · 01/08/2021 09:04

@Riggsisadino

What I also don't understand is why they don't allow trans men ? I have a close family member who is a trans man and was sexually assaulted. I helped him access services and there was nothing ! He couldn't go to the women's group as 'he wasn't a women' despite the fact he said he was biologically female (he ended up pregnant as a result found out at a late stage). He also wasn't allowed to the men's group which he enquirered about second cause he wasn't a man ! So it actually excludes some biological women to. We still struggled getting support for him know
This is awful, I'm so sorry. I hope they got support in the end?
happydays2345 · 01/08/2021 09:32

@Chickenyhead

Your posts have been deleted by mnhq.
Convenient. I think you'll find that they didn't say anything like what PP said, but never let the truth get in the way of a cool story 🙄
FloralBunting · 01/08/2021 09:37

I think it would be best to leave chickeny alone, happydays. Your posts were indeed doing exactly as she said, and I reported them. I will do so again if you continue to target her.

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 09:37

I'm sure they deleted them for shits and giggles.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/08/2021 09:47

They're the only posts deleted on this thread, I think.

R0wantrees · 01/08/2021 12:25

Essentially, yes, it is a mixed-sex abuse group. Which, as said, is ok for some people. It does need to be clearer from the beginning of advertising it, is the only real issue.

However, it excludes female survivors of sexual abuse who identify as 'transgender' and male survivors who do not identify as 'non-binary' or 'transgender'.

Thelnebriati · 01/08/2021 12:31

What I also don't understand is why they don't allow trans men?

Because the law says they should be treated as men. If they accepted trans men, then men who were excluded would have a claim for discrimination.

TinselAngel · 01/08/2021 12:51

However, it excludes female survivors of sexual abuse who identify as 'transgender' and male survivors who do not identify as 'non-binary' or 'transgender'.

In effect it excludes trans widows too as we wouldn't want to turn up and find our ex's mates there.

Anotheruser02 · 01/08/2021 18:14

@Thelnebriati

What I also don't understand is why they don't allow trans men?

Because the law says they should be treated as men. If they accepted trans men, then men who were excluded would have a claim for discrimination.

I don't think the law does say that. Isn't that the issue with Stonewall, that they misrepresent the law and sort by gender when sex is the protected characteristic?
Thelnebriati · 01/08/2021 18:30

If a person says they are transgender then they have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.
That puts the service in the position of having to ask to see a birth certificate to determine their legal sex. The service has decided its trans inclusive so chooses not to do that. They have taken the trans person at their word - they say they are male.

They are under no obligation to offer a single sex service, but imo they shouldn't call it ''women's'' when its actually mixed sex and single gender.

Tibtom · 02/08/2021 06:17

If a person says they are transgender then they have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

This is one of the situations where men are allowed to be excluded regardless of having a GRC stating they are legally a women.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 02/08/2021 11:07

@manatsu

What worries me is some dude saying he's non-binary, which requires simply saying he's non-binary, and being one of the men who gets off on women recounting stories of rape. And that's absolutely horrific to think about.

See the last few screenshots here: www.reddit.com/r/BanFemaleHateSubs/comments/otzbnn/rrapeworld_tw/
(warning: upsetting content)

Jesus, this is grim.

What's horrible is that the gender critical reddit was removed for being offensive or some other bullsh!t, but this is allowed to stand? Just shows their priorities.

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