Telegraph: Teacher sacked for attempting to scupper trans candidate’s hopes of being head girl

[LazyViper]

Sorry it’s behind a paywall. Has anyone seen this story elsewhere?

” French teacher sacked after attempting to scupper transgender candidate’s hopes of being head girl

Susan Field told tutor group she felt pupil was not ‘representative’ of the student body and that role was not ‘appropriate’ for her”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/28/french-teacher-sacked-attempting-scupper-transgender-candidates/

@Cheshirewife

I don’t think anything other than a permanent ban from the profession would be appropriate here.

At every school I’ve dealt with, the Head Girl has represented their school NOT their gender. It is also typically awarded based on academic and extra-curricular merit. Therefore I fail to see any reason why a trans girl shouldn’t be head girl.

I suppose then that it rests upon whether the individual actually had any merit - would they have been considered for Head Boy if they had not transitioned, or was the nomination purely because they were trans.

Here is the write up of the hearing.

Page 7 onwards describes what happened. It's short on detail. But what little detail there is indicates, certainly to me, that the teacher and pupils were aghast at the proposal.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006165/OFFICIAL_SENSITIVE_SoS_decision_Ms_Spare__18664__REDACTED_for_WEB_PDF.pdf

Head Girls are representative of girls within the school. They are there to highlight and support girls issues. Girls come to them for advice and support. They might want to highlight issues of boys misbehaviour, the lack of tampons in the toilets, whatever...... a transgender girl will not be able in any way to fulfill that role, and I doubt the girls in the girls in the school would feel represented or supported by them in any way at all.

I find it odd that we haven't been told what the "derogatory" comments allegedly made by pupils were. "Disgusting" is the only one we have been told of, which may be appropriate in some contexts depending on the behaviour of Pupil I. What else was said? I suspect that the comments made were rather less shocking than has been made out. "But [Pupil I] can't be Head Girl, he's a boy..." etc.

The girls have every right to be angry and call the idea of a boy being head girl "disgusting". Because it bloody well is.

At every school I’ve dealt with, the Head Girl has represented their school NOT their gender. It is also typically awarded based on academic and extra-curricular merit. Therefore I fail to see any reason why a trans girl shouldn’t be head girl.

If its nothing to do with gender then why even have 'head boy and head girl'? Why not just have 2 head boys? Presumably the point of head boy and head girl is equal representation, but you don't really get that if 2 males are in those positions. It's basically like all women shortlists and women's officer positions, on a smaller scale. But it's still not fair and, and usual it's female who miss out. Same shit as ever.

Please read the hearing outcome

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006165/OFFICIAL_SENSITIVE_SoS_decision_Ms_Spare__18664__REDACTED_for_WEB_PDF.pdf

There is absolutely no mention at all of there being a ‘Head Girl’ position.

The child was going for a role on the ‘Senior Student Leadership Team’ and the teacher said in front of many other pupils that she would rank this child last because she didn’t think it was appropriate. That was unprofessional, she made a mistake and she wholly owned up to that.

This does not seem to be what many here are making it out to be.

@Callybrid

Please read the hearing outcome

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006165/OFFICIAL_SENSITIVE_SoS_decision_Ms_Spare__18664__REDACTED_for_WEB_PDF.pdf

There is absolutely no mention at all of there being a ‘Head Girl’ position.

The child was going for a role on the ‘Senior Student Leadership Team’ and the teacher said in front of many other pupils that she would rank this child last because she didn’t think it was appropriate. That was unprofessional, she made a mistake and she wholly owned up to that.

This does not seem to be what many here are making it out to be.

Totally agree with you.

It's very odd that the paper talks about a head girl position, then. Maybe it didn't form part of the hearing but did form part of the teachers and girls' concern.

Either way, the wording is so opaque as to be useless.

But I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that males should not be representing females, in any way. Apart from having no knowledge of their needs, a transwoman will be specifically embodying damaging female stereotypes.

Women's and girls rights are the issue really. If girls are supposed to have a head girl (on a par with the boys having a head boy), then that is what they should expect. Maybe a transgirl or transboy could propose and lobby for the creation of trans representative(s) position(s) if they identify as different from their biological sex.

Women's and girls rights are a completely laudable aim.

@Cailleach1

Women's and girls rights are the issue really. If girls are supposed to have a head girl (on a par with the boys having a head boy), then that is what they should expect. Maybe a transgirl or transboy could propose and lobby for the creation of trans representative(s) position(s) if they identify as different from their biological sex.

Women's and girls rights are a completely laudable aim.

Not in this case no. The issue at hand is teacher misconduct.

That’s the only actual example given of “derogatory language” unless I’ve missed something? It does sound like the teacher was unprofessional though, she shouldn’t let a class sit around discussing a fellow pupil. I suspect a back story other than “transphobia” regarding the negativity that was apparently unleashed in the discussion, but we’ll never know

Yes it does depend on context and i agree re unprofessional, appropriate action should have been taken against the teacher….although ive no idea whether sacking her was a proportional response

Not in this case no. The issue at hand is teacher misconduct.

I'm getting the impression that she didn't have the words or the framework to register her disapproval over what was happening, and how unacceptable she found it.

That is an issue that needs more transparency than the hearing provides.

@Datun

Not in this case no. The issue at hand is teacher misconduct.

I'm getting the impression that she didn't have the words or the framework to register her disapproval over what was happening, and how unacceptable she found it.

That is an issue that needs more transparency than the hearing provides.

That could possibly be true but the place to explore her misgivings is not a classroom with her pupils.

It was wrong to state personal views in front of pupils to potentially influence which seems to be the crux of it.

If she thought this particular person was unsuitable then she is not compelled to endorse them when it came to decision time (at least I would hope not)

Odd that the Telegraph has reported this as about head girl when it was about being on a student team If it was about female representation in any way then no, they should not be included. Someone who is not female as in the sex, is not going to have an understanding of female issues, will likely only push their own narrative and issues important to them, not to mention taking a female position away from females.

Agree with @AnyOldPrion about context of the 'disgusting' comment though.

That could possibly be true but the place to explore her misgivings is not a classroom with her pupils.

Yes I don't disagree with that. But, what little detail is in the hearing says that words which were allegedly said by her, weren't.

The hearing is about this teacher, what she did, what she said. But again, it's so short on detail, that there is absolutely no context in which I personally can form much of a judgment.

I'm assuming it's not allowed for teachers to say how they will vote in this situation? Is that the case?

Reading it again, it would appear that her main wrongdoing was not to stop other pupils discussing the issue. It is they who referred to the individual as 'that', and used the word disgusting, not her.

As we know, only too well, there are numerous pitfalls one can fall into when discussing this issue. Women have had to go to court, ffs, to confirm that even their opinions about this are allowed to be legitimately expressed.

My impression is that everyone was aghast at what was happening, but no one had the words to express it.

And there is every possibility that she felt that had she raised it up the food chain, she would have faced even more censure. No one can be unaware of how many women have been in that exact position.

As it was, it was the parent of a daughter in the tutor group, who raised it.

@Datun

Reading it again, it would appear that her main wrongdoing was not to stop other pupils discussing the issue. It is they who referred to the individual as 'that', and used the word disgusting, not her.

As we know, only too well, there are numerous pitfalls one can fall into when discussing this issue. Women have had to go to court, ffs, to confirm that even their opinions about this are allowed to be legitimately expressed.

My impression is that everyone was aghast at what was happening, but no one had the words to express it.

And there is every possibility that she felt that had she raised it up the food chain, she would have faced even more censure. No one can be unaware of how many women have been in that exact position.

As it was, it was the parent of a daughter in the tutor group, who raised it.

I'm not reading it the same way Datun. She singled out an individual pupil.

However, and apologies for repeating myself, if the issue was so difficult it could not be raised within the staff the very last place it should have been raised is the classroom.

If the teacher made unpleasant comments about this child then yes she should be disciplined
Head Girl should actually BE a girl though as someone who is Trans will not have the life experiences of girls from birth

@Datun

Of course a boy shouldn't be head girl! The male in question had only decided to say they were a girl at the beginning of the year. The girls must have been fuming.

And the comments might well have been inappropriate, but as correctly sexing the person in question could likely have been considered bigoted and transphobic, without further details, I'll reserve judgment.

There are further details in the article, did you not read it? She allowed her students to say some dehumanising and disgusting things about this student without intervention, this is about far more than just the question of who should be head girl.

I'm not reading it the same way Datun

That's okay.

It's a pity that one is left to use interpretation in order to form much of a judgment.

Hopefully, going forward, organisations like Safe Schools Alliance will be able to provide teachers with the framework, wording, and legal position that will make hearings like this unnecessary.

It's perfectly legitimate for teachers and pupils to disagree with trans ideology even as a concept. And of course, pointing out the disadvantages it presents to girls, particularly when a male individual proposes being representative of females.

There are further details in the article, did you not read it? She allowed her students to say some dehumanising and disgusting things about this student without intervention, this is about far more than just the question of who should be head girl.
@BlueberryCheezecake so what exactly did the pupils say then?

Disgusting is a word my daughters would have used about a lot of male pupils! Maybe the boy was disgusting (picked his nose, made lewd comments etc.). Context is everything, if the pupils who said it was disgusting said this just because the boy was transgender then that is wrong, but I suspect not. People are more than their gender identity.

Was the position on the student team for head girl? I went to a comprehensive so we didn't have these things so no idea what the role was. If it was Head Girl then no male should have that role. If it is just a student representative open to both sexes then it does seem wrong.

The teacher using the whole LGBTQ abbreviation is not explored either. Would the teacher not like to see a lesbian or gay boy on the student leader team either?

Cheshirewife

"At every school I’ve dealt with, the Head Girl has represented their school NOT their gender"

Except that a "head girl" is a young human female, or should be and a "head boy" is a young human male. It really is very simple. If you ignore this, then you will have a situation where males take over all positions in society, a situation which we have been trying to move away from for decades.

I'm really intrigued by the confusion over whether this was a Head Girl issue or a Student Representative issue. It entirely changes the story. If this student was just going to be one of a team of student body representatives then the teacher was absolutely in the wrong. This comment is suggestive of ingrained intolerance rather than protection of appropriate female representation:

During the investigation, she admitted telling her tutor group that it is "not appropriate for a member of the LGBTQI to represent Ash Manor School".

Especially in combination with this:

"the reason why she was going to rank Pupil I last was because she considered that Pupil I was not representative of the student body".