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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mid-life new same sex attraction being fetishised

66 replies

lalalalalafeelingroovy · 27/07/2021 15:05

Total name change for this as I'm pretty nervous about posting it. Back during the first lockdown, being home and so often alone brought about a lot of introspection. I'm a divorced single parent and haven't had any romantic or sexual relationship/contact of any kind since my marriage ended close to a decade ago. I'm far from asexual but whenever any sort of opportunity or suggestion for dating/hooking up with a man has come up, I have backed right off it. When the pandemic started one of the things that hit me was that in a lot of ways the choice/opportunity to meet a guy was lost to me for the foreseeable. Which was a mix of tough, because at times I do feel frustrated by the complete lack of a sex life but also absolutely fine because I so feel such a very strong aversion to being in another relationship with a man.

I've always identified as 100% straight. When people trot out the 'everyone is a bit bisexual' trope I've always felt it's belittling to all straight and gay people, but especially women, as it's so often just aimed at straight women. However, throughout lockdown for a genuine string of reasons, I started to feel more and more attraction to women. It started as a massive shock, one that I rationalised as a reaction to long-term celibacy, something my brain dreamed up to distract me from the pandemic, a desire to feel more special, a reaction to a terrible marriage etc. But over time, I think I actually probably am attracted to women too and can identify various times in my teens and twenties where that attraction surfaced and I rejected it.

I've taken a lot of time thinking through this, I've read a lot about it, articles and fiction. I've watched a lot of lesbian/bisexual media, including some youtube channels. I learned that it's actually reasonably common for women my age to develop same sex attraction later in life. Sometimes those women identify as completely lesbian, sometimes bisexual. My biggest fear as I've developed these feelings is experimenting with a lesbian woman and hurting her if it turned out this is just some sort of mid-life crisis. So I'm thinking that it's good that the pandemic has given me time to think through everything as much as I can alone.

And while going over everything, I found there are quite a few online chat groups for women who are developing these feelings when older, often after marrying a man, to discuss this with each other. I joined some of these groups last year and initially they were great. It's been really interesting to see the similarities and differences in our experiences. It's interesting to read about those who are further into their journey are getting on with dating other women. Or telling other people in their lives.

But I've come up against an issue that's increasingly a problem for me. After the first few weeks/months in a group, you start to get used to the most regular users. And as I worked out who they were, I also realised that as many as 1/4 or more of the regulars were transwomen. I kind of instinctually wasn't happy about that but I really couldn't work out why I felt that way. But as time went on, it became really obvious to me that our experiences weren't the same. The transwomen on these groups all identify as late in life lesbians because it's later in life that they have started identifying as women. their attractions haven't changed. Whereas the women in the groups are processing either a complete change in who they are attracted to or an expansion of it.

A discussion about our past relationships with men and whether or not there was real attraction, real enjoyment of the sex, how we felt then, how we feel in retrospect, etc, has nothing in common with someone who was a straight man and now identifies as a gay woman. Leaving aside any suggestion of AGP, and assuming that a male bodied person, identifying as a woman and maintaining an attraction to women, is a genuine gender orientation. Surely if you joined a group of previously straight identifying women, talking through their emerging attraction to women, you'd quickly recognise that your experiences had nothing in common, say best wishes guys, and go set up your own group to discuss your own specific, very, very different experiences. There are plenty of broader LGBTQ+ groups to connect with the whole broader community and discuss the experiences you may have in common. You wouldn't just stay and keep inserting your own irrelevant experiences into a unique and unrelated discussion group. Instead these posters join right in and are often the among the most prolific posters, just constantly inserting their own experience into the discussion.

So it makes me really feel like ultimately this isn't coming from a place of a genuine need to process their feelings and connect with those in similar situations. It actually does make me feel fetishised. Like these are men just really enjoying getting to join in and steer these discussions women are trying to have about our sexuality. Often the whole discussion turns to kink/BDSM, which makes me feel extremely uncomfortable because this tends to be one of the topics that becomes most dominated by the transwomen posters. I've never been able to participate in those discussions because I just feel really, really weirded out by them. Even though I think they touch on some interesting points that I'd actually like to discuss.

In the end I left most of the groups because something that was helping me make sense of my feelings became something that I was increasingly very uncomfortable in. I know, realistically that it's the internet, any poster can be claiming to be a woman in my age group and could be a 90 year old man or 13 year old boy or anyone else. But this isn't even pretending. It straight up feels like a space for women to discuss very private and confusing parts of themselves, has been made into something the opposite of safe. I miss having the groups. I really wanted to have the space to work through everything. I wasn't in a hurry to take how I'm feeling further just yet but I think I want to eventually and I wanted to be able to do it with a support network. Yet I feel instead like overall, it just turned out to be a bit of a creepy experience.

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 28/07/2021 17:43

I guess one place you might be able to set up a group is on Giggle. Does anyone here use Giggle? Might that be a possibility?

FrankButchersDickieBow · 28/07/2021 18:11

@sailmeaway

Start your own grp OP. `Then you can control it all and chuck out people you don't like, no?
Oh gosh. The pretentious and condescending 'no?' at the end of your sentence, speaks absolute volumes.

Go and try and force women to be complicit elsewhere please.

NonnyMouse1337 · 28/07/2021 18:37

@AnyOldPrion

I guess one place you might be able to set up a group is on Giggle. Does anyone here use Giggle? Might that be a possibility?
It's a bit of a clunky app, but a good candidate since it's unapologetically female only. I've just never worked out how to use the giggle groups thing. 😅 I think it will get better as more women join.
Pretaxanger · 28/07/2021 21:37

There is a sexual orientation section on Giggle. The app is female only Grin

EarthSight · 28/07/2021 21:50

@PearPickingPorky I saw this at a workplace of mine. Most of the men behaved like plonkers, none of the women like their horrible misogynistic 'jokes' but no one called them up on it. They all wanted to seem non-confrontational, or cool. I was the only knew who said something, and I very much paid for it. The men got to dominate the temperature controls for the office as well. In a group that was 50% female, this imbalance shouldn't have happened. I felt as if I had travelled back in time to a 1960s office maybe.

EarthSight · 28/07/2021 21:51

@Pretaxanger No thanks. They had poor excuses for their huge security issues.

EarthSight · 28/07/2021 21:52

@FrankButchersDickieBow 🤣 I like the way you phrased your last post. Well said.

Pretaxanger · 28/07/2021 21:53

No need to @ me about your app preferences, thanks.

lalalalalafeelingroovy · 29/07/2021 12:27

Thanks for the Giggle suggestion. I'd never heard of it before but looked it up and found some threads about it on mumsnet. So am giving it a go. It's definitely clunky. All of the chat seems to be in the one place, while all of the topics just bring you to what seems like a tinder style* selection of women. That you either message or swipe past? I had thought there would be conversation within each topic. So it will take getting used to.

*I've never actually used tinder.

OP posts:
NonnyMouse1337 · 29/07/2021 12:54

Yes there's a separate chat section where it's all public topics that anyone on the app can read and respond to.

But you can also create these private mini groups based on certain topics. It can be used as a dating app - so you create a profile under a category and swipe on other women's profiles until you find one person you match with. Or you can create a profile for something like a book group or a support group and swipe on profiles. As other women match with your profile, they are added to this private group. You can specify how big you want the group to be.

You have to create a separate profile for each category to find like-minded women who are interested in the same things. At the moment there aren't lots of women signed up to the app, so I've found some categories, like the sexual orientation one only has a few other profiles to swipe on. I wanted to set something up for bisexual women.

The giggle chat section gets lively though. And I think as more women sign up to it, it will be easier to find matches. I really like that most of the women on the app are 'gender critical'. Smile

lalalalalafeelingroovy · 30/07/2021 12:32

It does seem like a 'good crowd' on there. But the chat section seems to be largely populated by the same 5 or 6 posters, as far as I can so far. While there are lots and lots of profiles to swipe through on the different sections. I'm really not feeling very sure about connecting with women through it, as I dislike the feeling of picking women through their profiles. It's also a case, as it is with me, that a lot of women don't really fill out their profiles very well. It's a pity it's not more of a discord type set up, where you go into different topics and chat about them. It would be much easier to connect with women who you actually talk to than by selecting their profiles.

OP posts:
sailmeaway · 30/07/2021 13:24

'Oh gosh. The pretentious and condescending 'no?' at the end of your sentence, speaks absolute volumes.'
that's the problem with internet, tone can be difficult to ascertain, no? Not everyone is native English speakers either.

Have you tried the 'She' app, OP? If you're looking for women to date.

joystir59 · 30/07/2021 13:32

I'm a lesbian, in my sixties now,came out in my late thirties and am sorry you are coming up against this nonsense. It simply isn't possible for men to be lesbians. Lesbians are defined as adult human females sexually attracted to people of the same SEX. It has nothing to do with identity, it's all about biology.

FloralBunting · 30/07/2021 15:03

I'm guessing the PP was suggesting the Her app. Highly recommended if you want to practice saying no to males, but tbh, there are more direct ways of doing that than using an app designed for lesbians and bi women.

lalalalalafeelingroovy · 30/07/2021 17:21

@FloralBunting

I'm guessing the PP was suggesting the Her app. Highly recommended if you want to practice saying no to males, but tbh, there are more direct ways of doing that than using an app designed for lesbians and bi women.
See the thing is, I kind of have a process worked out in my head. And I do feel there will be a point where I'd like to use apps like Her. Which is something that feels pretty significant to me because over the last few years whenever I've taken steps to start OLD with men, I've felt physically sick at the thought of it. I don't feel like that about women. And while the groups I was on weren't for dating, they were initially something I had really enjoyed and felt comfortable on.

But my experience with how those groups went does leave me less sure about what my next step would be.

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 30/07/2021 18:36

FWIW, I had a few nice conversations with women on Her - one woman was definitely just looking for friends, and it was perfectly nice. It's a very user friendly app. but you will find yourself swiping past a significant amount of obvious males, and ignoring them liking your profile. Plus the perennial 'looking for a third' thing which seems fairly ubiquitous. Don't get me wrong, we've always had to deal with turning down creepy dudes and those seeing us as fetish-extensions.
But there was definitely a point when the LGB community (as it was when I was out the first time) wouldn't have dreamed of trying to shame you for telling a chancer to sod off, and would have laughed to scorn a male saying he was a lesbian. It's bracing to return from the closet to find things so changed, tbh, but we pushed back against nasty nonsense before, we can do it again.

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