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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anne Jenkins: Why I changed my mind about trans self-identification

35 replies

Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 09:18

In today’s Telegraph.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/23/changed-mind-trans-self-identification/

Or

archive.is/HaOAw

No doubt I will now be vilified for declaring myself to be “‘gender critical”, but I am not just standing up for the rights of tens of millions of women and girls but speaking for the vast majority who are either still unaware of what has been happening to our equality laws or are too scared themselves to say anything.

The article is interesting because she is part of a family who has been lauded in the past by Stonewall. And she, herself, has campaigned for women’s rights.

Another voice of reason.

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Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 09:24

Sorry. I should have written

‘Another voice of reason in the House of Lords’

She is, of course, Baroness Jenkins.

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hedgehogger1 · 23/07/2021 09:27

I feel she's missed an opportunity to explain why. Good to see the message is getting out though

OdetoMyFamily · 23/07/2021 09:28

She's voicing the views of the vast majority.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 23/07/2021 09:29

What a courageous piece. Absurd that it should take courage but that is where we are.

It would be interesting to know if there's additional elaboration in the podcast.

Conservative peer and co-founder of Women2Win Baroness Jenkin of Kennington tells Chris why listening to last week’s Chopper’s Politics made her realise it was time to speak out about her own political journey in the transgender debate, and why she no longer agrees with self-identification.

Imnobody4 · 23/07/2021 09:36

Great to see someone else with an impeccable history putting their heads above the parapet.

Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 09:48

I thought too that the podcast may have more information.

I guess she could give more information about what she sees as the priorities and why.

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JulesJules · 23/07/2021 09:54

This is a very good piece. What are the comments like? I can only read the archive version.

Lucyam1 · 23/07/2021 10:21

Great that Baroness Jenkin has been brave enough to change her mind publicly! Do fill in this survey from Parent Kind which is finding out if parents have been consulted on the RSE curriculum in schools
www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/RE_RSE_poll_July2021/

Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 10:29

I am listening to this podcast Chopper’s Politics and I can see why she has started to speak out.

The podcast is with Frank Luntz’ and his research. What he has found is that

28% of people have stopped talking to someone because of something political they once said.

The worst were those ‘younger’ people who we get told will change the world, who think they are the wokest. Who pride themselves on being open minded and tolerant.

Over 50% of 18- 29 year olds have stopped listening to voices they have perceived have said something wrong in the past.

How tolerant is that?

Yet only 14% of over 65 year olds have that attitude.

As Frank Luntz puts it. The generation who thinks of themselves as being most tolerant is actually the least tolerant.

I think we see that in action on here, on other social media platforms.

He said that this generation is getting the idea that this is ok. And the message has come from people who are teaching them or from friends, and social media that encourages this intolerance. And they are being applauded and told that this is a good thing … when it is completely hypocritical and dangerous for society.

While I don’t agree with him that the impacts on women from trans rights is as minuscule as he believes, his poll is really interesting. He attitude to free speech, his attitude to slavery and imperialism is common sense really.

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EmbarrassingAdmissions · 23/07/2021 10:32

TY Helleofabore - Summary of Luntz's research for anyone who is interested in the survey numbers:

www.cps.org.uk/media/press-releases/q/date/2021/07/06/cps-publishes-landmark-survey-by-dr-frank-luntz-on-poli/

PaulaPetunia · 23/07/2021 10:38

Oh god the intolerance of some of the younger members of my family seriously worries me.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 23/07/2021 11:03

Really good piece, and speaks total sense.

The only bit that made me go hmm was this
When the Conservative Party proposed changing the law on gender recognition in 2015, I didn’t see any great problem. I support those people with gender dysphoria who feel they must identify as the opposite sex. Like most people, I understood that this was to cater for relatively few in society who had chosen to commit to sex- reassignment surgery.

...'I didn't see any great problem'...I feel like saying - did you even look?

This is such a cop out from politicians and leaders, it makes me wonder if they don't fully consider things at all from women's perspective.

We KNOW that predatory men will use whatever tools necessary to avoid detection and to get access to vulnerable women and girls. So how did they not think this would be an issue? Just like the name change legislation which is now being shown to be a gift to sex offenders.

It leads me to think that people making these laws are not looking at potential pitfalls and consequences robustly enough. Which means they are not doing their job properly. Do they not think to look at all angles and talk to ALL groups that would be affected?

Genesis1v27 · 23/07/2021 11:09

The podcast episode title is 'Cummings' curtain call?,' and Baroness Jenkin's interview begins at 22:20 minutes in.

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 23/07/2021 11:12

Thank you for sharing this. I think it's encouraging!

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 23/07/2021 11:16

@Genesis1v27

The podcast episode title is 'Cummings' curtain call?,' and Baroness Jenkin's interview begins at 22:20 minutes in.
Ooh just found it on Spotify too Smile
Melroses · 23/07/2021 11:22

Definitely worth a listen.

Hadalifeonce · 23/07/2021 11:25

I have just watched a YouTube discussion hosted by Toby Young from Free Speech Union with Kathleen Stock. It is incredibly insightful.

Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 15:19

Thanks for the recommendations on the other podcasts.

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Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 16:30

It is interesting to listen to her on the podcast linked in Genesis1 post. Thank you.

She is up front in stating that a few months ago she would have agreed with Luntz that women’s rights was a fringe issue in comparison to other issues.

She said it was a combination of the previous Joanne Rowling reaction, then more recently it was Hubbard, Jesse de Wahl and a horrific account of women in a ward when a male who identified as a woman was brought in. Who after an incident was told by the nurse that she was transphobic.

This Baroness is finally speaking out but is so clear about it. And is clear about where she thinks that Luntz has missed it completely.

Well worth a listen, and she is calm and measured and on the ball.

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Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 16:38

Just reached the part where she is disagreeing with the host about how ‘small’ this issue was.

She points out that many parents with girls certainly becoming very aware of it quickly now. And that it IS an issue and it is a big issue for the near future.

Thank you, Baroness Jenkin. Flowers

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Motorcyclemptiness · 23/07/2021 18:40

well said, Anne

noraclavicle · 23/07/2021 19:05

Curiously, comments were open on this article at around 6.45am today. Now they appear to have been zapped altogether.

Helleofabore · 23/07/2021 20:30

Interestingly, Baroness Foster has retweeted it and also tweeted the pic of the article with the comment :

‘Excellent article .. outlines perfectly how the majority of women feel !’

It is good to see some more politicians come out now. Obviously, probably easier to be in House of Lords rather than commons, but the list is growing regardless.

And their tweets are reassuring women that they are not alone and are not hateful for speaking out.

twitter.com/jfoster2019/status/1418511875013238787?s=21

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EmbarrassingAdmissions · 23/07/2021 21:14

The podcast was OK. It's poor preparation that she mentioned transwomen in prisons but didn't have the names and details of the crimes and their nature, nor the attacks by the likes of Karen White at her fingertips.

She spoke with welcome clarity but whoever it was was not that good an interviewer and it was the more disappointing that when he did speak, she fluffed the question.

Veeta · 23/07/2021 22:14

Good article, but some obvious typos in there that I’m surprised the telegraph didn’t correct. No comments open that I could see, were they open earlier?