“ How families are fighting back against laws targeting transgender athletes”... Guardian article

[SuperSleepyBaby]

www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/14/maddie-jenifer-north-carolina-transgender-athletes

Very one sided article. The language is misleading as it talks about how these ‘girls and women’ just want to be able to play sports with other girls and women.

Also, see this part...
“ With her husband still skeptical, Katie found a therapist who evaluated Maddie and noted that the five-year-old never wavered in her beliefs. This wasn’t a phase”

@yourhairiswinterfire

Still, the North Carolina’s House judiciary committee was introducing legislation that would have banned Maddie from playing sports for her high school that fall.

Bullshit straight off. They're not banned from playing sports, they can play with their own sex class, the group they're equal with.

Parents of transgender children, like Katie, pleaded for understanding and compassion.

Where's your understanding and compassion for the girls that will get seriously hurt or lose out? Sick to death of everyone bleating on about 'fairness and inclusion', whilst being perfectly happy for women and girls to suffer unfairness and exclusion. Just stop pretending you give a shit about fairness.

I agree with this.

On a similar vein, I sometimes listen to the Unladylike podcast. It's hosted by 2 young American feminists and there have been some really interesting episodes.

But I have just listened to one from June called How to Run Like a Girl and it was infuriating. The concerns of "cisgender" female athletes were completely dismissed and the trans athletes were given such a sympathetic, uncritical hearing.

unladylike.co/episodes/120/trans-athletes

To make matters even worse, the episode finished with a trailer for the following episode which was about endometriosis. It's a condition which needs to be better understood and is worth covering. But why did 2 self-described feminists have to say that it's a condition which one in ten "people with uteruses" experience? Why has "women" become a dirty word?

in North Carolina, Maddie is hardly likely to be accepted onto the boys team either.

That’s a real shame. A friend who coaches boys’ football here has a transgirl on the team. The boys are all used to the idea and mostly remember to yell the right name.

The concerns of "cisgender" female athletes were completely dismissed and the trans athletes were given such a sympathetic, uncritical hearing.

Let’s be clear - the trans athletes being given a sympathetic hearing are trans women.

Its just assumed that trans men will be happy to compete with women (assuming no drug related rules are broken) or exclude themselves from sport.

It’s almost as if there is some kind of pattern…

What does being asthmatic have to do with anything?

I'm starting to get really annoyed with reading statements about two year olds and gender.

In my experience, a two year old hasn't yet developed the physical awareness to shuffle around in high heeled shoes. Thats something you tend to see when a child is three or older.

Again, I've not seen a huge amount of biological sex awareness in children under three. It seems it clicks in children who are three or over. Even then, I notice that while three year old understand there are boys and girls, many don't yet understand pronouns and constantly misuse them, and they don't really understand gender practices either.

Even with a sympathetic hat on, I can't see how a child under four could show a commitment to "being in the wrong body", unless it was a three year old trying to provoke a reaction from their parents by saying something silly over and over.

Why does no editor point this out after reading a proposal article? Why does no-one say "Wait a minute, most two year olds can barely talk and most have, at best, only been walking for twelve months?!

artsandculture.google.com/story/the-high-life-a-history-of-men-in-heels/iQJCgMgwSKV5Kw

Often I think the bigger question is why so many men are so gender conforming.

Is it because gender non conformity is more feared in men than women? Women don’t matter/are easier to control so what they do matters less?

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/feb/01/hannah-hauxwell-obituary

There have always been women who have just got on and lived there lives without any concept of conforming or not conforming to gender expectations, but I suppose they are just seen as conforming to the ‘human’ default.

Man is the ‘default’ human. Women are an abberation therefore male non conformity is more threatening.

In my experience, a two year old hasn't yet developed the physical awareness to shuffle around in high heeled shoes. Thats something you tend to see when a child is three or older.

In my experience, a two year old will shuffle around in any adult's shoes left lying around, the bigger the better. But heels are definitely beyond them at that stage. Dressing up as someone else is into preschool playgroup age.

(I have very fond memories of all of mine shuffling around in their father's shoes at this stage, yet none of them 'changed gender'. Obviously, men's shoes are the default )

I just see parents who consciously or subconsciously fear or dislike gender non-conformity and/or homosexuality, and can’t countenance the idea that a boy who dresses up in high heels, plays with Barbie and enjoys the company of girls is still a boy. Transing them is a faux progressive answer to that. They feel good at being so ‘progressive’ and it also quells their feelings of discomfort at a ‘girlie boy’.

I think Maddie is living in a very gendered society, and the answer is more opportunity to participate in unisex activities and more acceptance of gender non conforming children

I agree with that. Maddie is a product of her society as well as her parents’ conservatism. I feel sorry for Maddie too.

I don’t however think Maddie should play on girls teams because sport is divided by sex. This division by sex is also ‘unfair’ to every other male in the world, but it’s there to be fair to women and girls - ie females.

It’s a different approach to fairness, isn’t it, and gif forbid a child of any sex, gender or ability should ever be told that their needs do not trump everyone else’s

Great for Maddie to be transgender, great for her to live happily with her friends. But in the end, what is wrong with “Maddie, the issue is your body developed differently to that of your friends, in a way that doesn’t make it fair for them in sport “

Parents of disabled children (or children with physical differences, if you like) support their kids to have happy friendships and social groups that survive not playing sport together. “Your body is different, be proud of who you are, but in this particular case, it’s just one of those things “

(I have a child with a difference that affects sport)

So many clues to the kind of society Maddie lives in - being 2 and at a Sunday School where the teacher wears heels (got to be smart for church - I suspect this isn’t some draughty church hall where volunteers get stuck into ‘messy church’).

Trying to attend a ‘mommy and me’ class that must be for children young enough to attend with a parent (pre-school?) but that is also segregated by sex. The parent is of course a ‘mommy’ (but what happens to siblings?).

Maddie’s costume. Traditional British team sports for girls (hockey, lacrosse) tend to involve mouth guards.

But of course this the Guardian of 2021 which assumes an American audience and American cultural imperialism, so it’s not suggested that this is all a bit regressive and American culture is not the default.

I used to read the Guardian and Independent years ago, when they allowed comments on articles.
I wonder why they no longer allow comments on many articles, particularly ones such as this?

@AlfonsoTheMango

What does being asthmatic have to do with anything?

I suspect the mention of asthma is to try to shut down the unfairness argument. It of course ignores the fact that this wouldn't just apply to poor wheezy Maddie but also to six foot six young men with all the physical advantages of maleness. Maddie has been carefully picked to be the sweet, non threatening face of the campaign and to make us feel sorry for a poor little 3 year old who couldn't have gym classes with their friends (which they could just not the girls only gym class). As I mentioned earlier Google suggests Paula Radcliffe and David Beckham have asthma so it is a bit of a smoke screen to suggest it automatically means you can't achieve in sport.

That's a familiar story. It's almost like the mother has a script.

who let her newly graduated lawyer mother do the talking

This says it all for me. These are wealthy, socially connected people using their wealth and family connections to desperately cling on to status and pretensions by pushing other people out and stomping all over the rights of girls and women, as society’s natural scapegoats, in the process.

‘Wants to be accepted for who they are’, hey? You can either be accepted as female or for ‘who you are’. When have females ever been accepted as equals for ‘who they are’? I’m so sick of the lies.

@Packingsoapandwater

I'm starting to get really annoyed with reading statements about two year olds and gender.

In my experience, a two year old hasn't yet developed the physical awareness to shuffle around in high heeled shoes. Thats something you tend to see when a child is three or older.

Again, I've not seen a huge amount of biological sex awareness in children under three. It seems it clicks in children who are three or over. Even then, I notice that while three year old understand there are boys and girls, many don't yet understand pronouns and constantly misuse them, and they don't really understand gender practices either.

Even with a sympathetic hat on, I can't see how a child under four could show a commitment to "being in the wrong body", unless it was a three year old trying to provoke a reaction from their parents by saying something silly over and over.

Why does no editor point this out after reading a proposal article? Why does no-one say "Wait a minute, most two year olds can barely talk and most have, at best, only been walking for twelve months?!

twitter.com/exulansic/status/1415187224254050306?s=21

Look at this. This poor kid is completely confused. They don't understand what their mother is asking them. Kids growing up in homes like this are being abused in the name of an ideology.

The stereotyping in that article! Maddie is 'quiet' 'shy' 'thoughtful' - she must be a girl, right?

I just see parents who consciously or subconsciously fear or dislike gender non-conformity and/or homosexuality, and can’t countenance the idea that a boy who dresses up in high heels, plays with Barbie and enjoys the company of girls is still a boy.

I see exactly the opposite: a mother who wants a gender non conforming child and a cause celebre. What better way to use your law degree. I take the whole story with a huge pinch of salt. It is a carefully crafted narrative to imply a crude caricature of a conservative Christian community which the stereotypical Guardian reader will swallow hook, line and sinker.

Too late for maddie I think

Why not just leave kids to be kids

We all know tha5 kids imagine they are all sorts of things

So sad for maddie not just allowed to be a kid 🙁

LOADS of boys are quiet and shy.

This stuff is blatently based on massively regressive gender roles that harm EVERYONE.

The journalist's twitter feed is...interesting. When someone has over 13k followers, it's pretty rare to pin a tweet for a day and NOT get a single like.

So either the followers aren't interested, or they're not real.

”“She saw parts of her body that didn’t align with how she felt, so she said she wanted to cut it off,” said Katie.”
Are we to understand that “transition” involved not just conforming to crass gender stereotypes but also castrating a 5 year old boy?

So he can do things boys aren’t allowed to do?

Well no. Although in USA I believe 14 year olds have had double mastectomy.

If the child has sex dysphoria then they need serious help psychologically asap as it's a huge deal.

However.

Small children see things in (naturally) a pretty absolute way. They in general are VERY wed to gender stereotypes. As they try to understand the world.

At that age most kids are

Boys have willies. Boys like football and cars and blue and dinosaurs.

Girls don't have willies. (Male as default naturally). Girls like princesses and pink and have long hair.

And I mean more or less that's that.

If a child that age prefers stereotypical girls things. And doesn't like being with the boys. Then what does that mean? No willy, wear pink etc.

I don't know this child this is in general.

I have known boys who refused to eat off 'girls' plates. IME as well it's much stricter for boys, all this stuff.

Also IME many girls go through a phase of massively rejecting 'girls stuff' at some point from about 7 upwards.

Then they settle down and just do their thing around puberty.

For boys society does not tolerate this option in the same way.

What needs to happen is break the gender ideas/ enforcement, freeing everyone up. And take it from there.

Is it because gender non conformity is more feared in men than women? Women don’t matter/are easier to control so what they do matters less?

That's about the way of it. It all makes you long for the 70s glam rock and punk movements. I don't often have much good to say about the baby boomers, but there were lots of artists - writing about dystopian futures as well as rebellion in music - in the 70s that had the right idea.