Irish Women’s Group Commissioned First Independent Survey On Attitudes To Gender In Ireland

[UtopiaPlanitia]

I thought this information might be of interest.

Here’s the page on The Countess website with an overview of the results: thecountess.ie/first-irish-public-poll-on-gender-debate/

Here’s a link to the full report on the survey: thecountess.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/The-Countess-Irish-Gender-Poll-2021.pdf

@TurquoiseBaubles

The problem in Ireland is that most people have no clue that this is evening happening. I bet for at least 500 of the thousand they interviewed, this was the first they heard of males in female prisons and sports, and rapists transitioning, for example.

So I'm amazed at the results. They must have been clear questions. The opposite side will now put out a questionaire with questions such as "do you agree people should be able to live their life as they wish" and do you agree transitioned people can use the toilets they like (with no explanation of what transitioning now means); by muddying the questions they'll get an awful lot of don't know, can't be bothered to think about it, no harm in being nice.

Yes, Minister is as accurate as ever.

LGB Alliance Ireland was founded recently. They'll have a good take on this from the one angle.

They'll need our support.

@NiceGerbil

Interesting thank you.

I was trying to find the thing recently where it said iirc that the stonewall survey around this they just ignored the responses that disagreed.

Have googled and no sign.

My memory might be wonky though! Anyone know what I'm thinking of?

Gerbil would you be thinking of the City of London consultation on public toilet provision? IIRC the author of that study ignored lots of responses that were deemed to have refused to use the preferred type of terminology when completing the survey.

I thought it was stonewall but could be wrong so let's leave it there!

I wish I had some idea why my last comment was banned. But it was literally so boring and innocuous I can't remember it. Apart from a reference to GK Chesterton. Sigh.

Who, or what is GK Chesterton?

Ah. Brief check.

Yes. You hit a nerve.

I've just had a humbinger of a row with my (gay) brother, who has told me I know nothing about anything and that I'm a bigot and worse than the anti-gays of the '70s.

How can I make him see sense when he just yells at me every time.

I'm so cross at myself. When he lost his temper, I just shut down and shut up. I know he's wrong; why can't I convince him?

On the plus side both of my "be kind" adult children are now onside. One because of NHS wards, the other because of women's sport.

Leave it

There's no point falling out over it.

I think you need to agree not to discuss. If he keeps bringing it up just say look. I don't want to argue. We disagree.

He knows you well. I assume you aren't a violent homophobe. You know that too.

Best left.

Men tend to be those who get it the least or certainly get it the last of all. He "lost his temper"?? He sounds horrid.

Well done for keeping your cool because he'll be pretty embarrassed when he catches up with the world.

@TurquoiseBaubles

I've just had a humbinger of a row with my (gay) brother, who has told me I know nothing about anything and that I'm a bigot and worse than the anti-gays of the '70s.

How can I make him see sense when he just yells at me every time.

I'm so cross at myself. When he lost his temper, I just shut down and shut up. I know he's wrong; why can't I convince him?

On the plus side both of my "be kind" adult children are now onside. One because of NHS wards, the other because of women's sport.

You can agree to disagree, he shouldn't be shouting at you. You may need to accept that you are not going to see eye to eye on this, I wouldn't throw away a good relationship over it if you generally get on well. Maybe just say you don't want to talk about it anymore.

Or perhaps you could direct him to the gay people speaking out about this - Sheridan Sinclair, Arty Morty, Julie Bindel, I'm sure there are others.

Also Arty Morty has a video on his youtube channel about how this is not the same as gay rights. Sadly I do think for many gay people they see this as a minority group struggling against oppression, and want to support them, without looking further into it or seeing the conflict with women's rights.

I also think men in general tend to have little or no awareness of women's issues, because they don't really have to think about it.

@PurpleHoodie

Who, or what is GK Chesterton?

He wrote the Fr. Brown crime stories. Bit of a quote machine too.

I’ve still not figured out the connection between gay and trans. The latter often serves as a form of conversion therapy for the former; and replacing sex with gender erases homosexuality.

There has always been a misogynistic tendency among gay men (ditto among non-gay men of course), and the “cotton ceiling” is never aggressively applied to gay men by transmen activists.

It's because drag queens/ and breaching gender norms have always been a thing on the gay scene.

So it got lumped in and here we are.

@NiceGerbil

It's because drag queens/ and breaching gender norms have always been a thing on the gay scene.

So it got lumped in and here we are.

But isn't cross dressing as sort of Lords of Misrule thing too? Sometimes used during riots and agrarian disturbances of the 18th x 19th centuries.

Saw this on Twitter. Does anyone have a sharetoken or even just a link so I can look for an archived copy please?

Sorry, the tweet says it's in The Sunday Times

Abhannmor

The reason that the T got added to LGB is not to do with that I'm fairly sure!

Wow. Very clear. Is that an article or a letter?

Found it; it's the last section in an opinion column www.thetimes.co.uk/article/legal-system-is-just-too-blunt-it-is-time-to-take-family-out-of-the-courtroom-sb7wrrdt3 or archive here archive.ph/ne93g

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fb2eafd0-e73a-11eb-8a8d-0766fc17d1b5?shareToken=74fec152b990671ba03b28b2c8ee9d8e

Here's a share token in case anyone wants to read the comments. A few positive ones.

I don't usually agree with Brenda Power on much but I'm glad she is speaking sense on this issue. I'm going to email and thank her for speaking about this. Like her or loathe her, if she keeps talking about this issue it will get more sunlight.

Thanks for posting that snippet and the share token, Maud and Mullet

I’ll confess to being very surprised to see the Countess survey getting any mention in the Irish press. Even a wee mention like this (so soon after the press release went out) is progress - it’ll probably provoke an OTT negative reaction from the usual folks though. It’s hard to build a consistent development of our position in the Irish media because it’s such a closed community with remarkably orthodox views that it makes it slow for opposing or dissenting views to achieve momentum. But, every little chink of sunlight helps.

I have to say this whole thing has made me incredibly sceptical towards the media in general. I can't quite believe how many so called respectable journalists are misrepresenting reality to the wider public. What happened to journalistic standards? Surely this is a huge scandal that needs uncovering?

Reporting males who commit sexual offences as female is abhorrent. Trying to remove safeguarding boundaries is a recipe for disaster for young women and girls. Pushing hormones and surgery on young teenagers is disgraceful.
10 or 15 years ago it would be acknowledged as such. But now? Is it just that these people are the untouchables? Where's the integrity?

I read something recently that said that there was an uptake in journalism courses among younger people, which sounds good, as I have heard it was dying off because of the low pay etc.

But then the cynic in me wondered whether this is young people just wanting to push their own opinion onto a wider audience and control the narrative, which gives them a platform and makes them feel important.
I suppose the rot set in years ago when people stopped wanting to pay for investigative journalism and opinion became news, and now we are seeing the effects of that.

Sorry for the rant!

@NiceGerbil

Abhannmor

The reason that the T got added to LGB is not to do with that I'm fairly sure!

No indeed. Trains are very conventional or even reactionary but I think they like to be seen as radical and cutting edge. I went off on a tangent there ; had read something about the Rebecca Riots in Wales.