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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to suss out other GC people in work

101 replies

JustcameoutGC · 14/07/2021 08:01

I work in an organisation that is SWalled up the wazooo. I want to find other people in work who hold gender critical views, but not sure the best way to go about this. How do I do this safely? Thinking I might ask if they have any pets, like clownfish.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 08:08
Grin
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 08:09

I think just tread very carefully, maybe bring up a topical news story in a faux innocent way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 08:10

The Olympics are likely to provide a good backdrop for this. It's possible someone else will raise it before you need to.

MishyJDI · 14/07/2021 08:21

Are you not aware of the secret handshake?

BelleClapper · 14/07/2021 08:24

In my experience, everybody is gender critical when you drill down.

I work with mainly students and young people (hospitality manager) and the only colleague who remotely believes any of the rubbish is my own son and he’s coming out of the fog.

It is quite literally an emperors new clothes situation where everyone thinks everyone else believes it so no one sticks their head above the parapet.

Depending on how brave you are/how safe your job is, just start the conversation.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 14/07/2021 08:31

The smart ones?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 08:33

It is quite literally an emperors new clothes situation where everyone thinks everyone else believes it so no one sticks their head above the parapet.

Yes I think that's largely true.

PronounssheRa · 14/07/2021 08:35

For me it was the 'let's put pronouns in our email' conversation.

As soon as one person pushed back a little other people started to speak out. It's not necessarily that everyone was GC, but people recognised how polarising this can be, alongside the unintended consequences of declaring allegiance to gender stereotypes.

JustcameoutGC · 14/07/2021 08:37

I have already peeked my head above the parapet, and now know enough to know that I need to tread veeeerrrrryyyy carefully.

Olympics is a good shout.

Thinking maybe some discrete ribbons in my hair.

OP posts:
cordeliavorkosigan · 14/07/2021 08:37

How did that conversation start, about the pronouns? And how did it go?

RoastChicory · 14/07/2021 08:37

I agree. There have been a few trans rights articles on my work intranet and it is notable that they get a lot of views but very few likes.

There has been a push for email pronouns but uptake has been limited to maybe a third. Maybe bring up Laurel Hubbard with someone who doesn’t have pronouns in their signature?

Radio4ordie · 14/07/2021 08:43

Someone started trying to campaign for trans rights at work (they aren’t trans themselves just very young & passionate) via our intranet, no one replied. I took that as a sign that people had some doubts as to what this colleague was saying (that we should get rid of male/female toilets and use pronouns in emails etc). I privately told them that surely how we treat one another shouldn’t be based on our gender so I didn’t need to know my colleague from accounts was a she/her. I could just thank Jan for sending me a budget breakdown! She wasn’t convinced.

dudsville · 14/07/2021 08:46

I pay attention to lanyards and email signatures. At my work these aren't mandatory, so there's still a degree of free will involved in what a person does with these.

PronounssheRa · 14/07/2021 08:50

cordeliavorkosigan

It was a suggestion by a member of staff senior to me, there were some tentative responses about unconscious bias, lack of consensus on the issue, that some people with different beliefs or faiths might feel uncomfortable.

End result was this is personal choice rather than company policy. The conversation was less painful than I thought it would be.

highame · 14/07/2021 08:59

Perhaps the MSM coverage is actually have an effect and causing some re-think. If you had asked this question, even last year, you would have had a lot of different responses.....but give it time. Some companies will want to continue down this route but they will now have to tread very carefully because of the Forstrater ruling. There's never been a better time to put a toe in the water.

Shout out the Staniland question at a meeting Grin

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 14/07/2021 09:02

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It is quite literally an emperors new clothes situation where everyone thinks everyone else believes it so no one sticks their head above the parapet.

Yes I think that's largely true.

Preference falsification is a good way to think about it, too (that may be the optimist in me, thinking aloud).

Preference falsification, according to the economist Timur Kuran, is the act of misrepresenting one’s wants under perceived social pressures. It happens frequently in everyday life, such as when we tell the host of a dinner party that we are enjoying the food when we actually find it bland. In Private Truths, Public Lies, Kuran argues convincingly that the phenomenon not only is ubiquitous but has huge social and political consequences. Drawing on diverse intellectual traditions, including those rooted in economics, psychology, sociology, and political science, Kuran provides a unified theory of how preference falsification shapes collective decisions, orients structural change, sustains social stability, distorts human knowledge, and conceals political possibilities.

A common effect of preference falsification is the preservation of widely disliked structures. Another is the conferment of an aura of stability on structures vulnerable to sudden collapse. When the support of a policy, tradition, or regime is largely contrived, a minor event may activate a bandwagon that generates massive yet unanticipated change.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge. So structures held in place by preference falsification may, if the condition lasts long enough, achieve increasingly genuine acceptance. The book demonstrates how human knowledge and social structures co-evolve in complex and imperfectly predictable ways, without any guarantee of social efficiency.

www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 14/07/2021 09:05

My basic investigative insight is

  • they have watched and liked Handmaids Tale
  • they are women

I obviously am being slightly tongue in cheek, but have found a few allies just from asking women around me (in general TV/movie chatter) if they have watched Handmaids Tale Grin

JustcameoutGC · 14/07/2021 09:06

My CEO has pronouned...

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 09:09

Preference falsification is a good way to think about it, too (that may be the optimist in me, thinking aloud).

Really interesting, thank you!

NannyAndJohn · 14/07/2021 09:16

I've shown a couple of my colleagues clips from GB News.

Sophoclesthefox · 14/07/2021 09:18

The routes that I’ve found have been around

-pronouns. The conversation came up, and I said I wouldn’t be doing it as our sector is so heavily male dominated, the last thing I wanted to do was draw more attention to the fact that I’m a woman. The women I was talking to all responded with some variation of “oh my god, yes! I couldn’t put my finger on it, but that’s what I felt”. I followed it up with some articles about stereotype threat, and found some fellow travellers Grin no pronouns were forthcoming.

  • toilet facilities. When some gender neutral facilities were announced, and some women were discussing it I said “for myself, I prefer a single sex facility”, and again, we all immediately agreed, and they shared my preference.

Those conversations led to further, more in depth conversations, and I can report back that at least five women at my work are to some degree “gender critical” in that they believe that women are permitted to have needs and preferences.

Nimora · 14/07/2021 09:19

Thinking maybe some discrete ribbons in my hair.

I use a Woman: Adult Human Female notebook in meetings. Like a subtle bat signal Grin.

Applesandpears23 · 14/07/2021 09:23

There’s always the “I have a colleague who I know feels concerned about this because… She wouldn’t want me to share her name because she is worried about reprisals…” approach.

tootiredtobother · 14/07/2021 09:27

write a message on the wall of the ladies loos - in sharpie pen !

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 14/07/2021 09:29

@Nimora

Thinking maybe some discrete ribbons in my hair.

I use a Woman: Adult Human Female notebook in meetings. Like a subtle bat signal Grin.

Ooh where from?

I'm also trying to find a lanyard in the Suffragette colours and struggling