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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stephanie Barrett representing Canada

107 replies

NancyDrawed · 07/07/2021 09:09

Such an inspirational story.

Started archery at the age of 37. Is representing Canada in the Olympics in Archery at the age of 42. How lucky that Stephanie just happens to have an Olympic level talent for archery. I wonder what it is that sets this athlete apart from the much younger women in the category, apart from their height?

olympic.ca/team-canada/stephanie-barrett/?fbclid=IwAR3KuaiAwauCilPrpnVPJnHI1EnL8_r_8ZVv32kWBdrw4U0Q6nXL0O4ZUoE

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 07/07/2021 12:28

@IsItShining

If it’s within the rules, it isn’t cheating.

It’s the rules that are wrong.

To some degree you are right.

It is certainly reason to campaign to have all males removed from female sport categories.

aliasundercover · 07/07/2021 12:39

‘“She” always felt “she” was going to be an Olympian’

I bet a lot of blokes feel they could be an Olympian if they could compete solely against women.

Clymene · 07/07/2021 12:46

@IsItShining

If it’s within the rules, it isn’t cheating.

It’s the rules that are wrong.

Well I couldn't live with myself but clearly some people don't care who they trample over in their desire for fame and success
DdraigGoch · 07/07/2021 12:52

@IsItShining

If it’s within the rules, it isn’t cheating.

It’s the rules that are wrong.

You are correct that it isn't technically cheating.

It is however morally cheating.

TedImgoingmad · 07/07/2021 12:52

@trancepants

I agree that there are some people who are just 'sporty' and can do reasonably well in whichever sport they try - I think mindset has a lot to with it, as well as a good level of fitness. I doubt any of them could go from novice to Olympian in the space of 5 years if they were in the correct category, especially at such a relatively advanced age.

I know absolutely nothing about Stephanie Barrett however Geena Davis, who I think we all know is definitely a natal woman, took up archery in her early 40s. And she came very, very close to qualifying for the 2000 Olympics within about 2 years. She came 24th out of the 300 women who were good enough to compete for an Olympic team spot. Now as a wealthy, prominent person she was able to hire an Olympic coach right off the bat, which most women in the 40s won't be able to do. But even at that it's incredibly impressive to go from really enjoying watching the archery at the 1996 Olympics to nearly qualifying for the 2000 team in your 40s.

A biological female outlier does not prove that biological men have no advantages. As well as having the wealth to be trained by the best, GD is not your average woman in terms of height (she's 6 foot) and has had to train in various different sports for acting roles, so will have had a level of underlying fitness well into her 40s. She also never considered herself to be sporty until she did those physical activities as part of her acting career, and then realised she is bloody good at everything she turns her hand to. However, she was bloody good when competing against other females. She never competed against biological males.

Your average American woman in 5'4", and will have the corresponding arm reach. Your average American woman in her 40s will have had children and/or be experiencing the beginning of peri-menopause. She will not have the wealth or the name to attract top trainers. Taking up a sport like archery from scratch in their 40s is beyond the reach (literally!) of the vast majority of American women.

However, taking up archery and excelling in the women's category would, I venture, not require your average American male to be anything special at all. Yes, they would need to develop the skills, but if they were as skilled in the art as their 5'4" same age female contemporary, it would still not be an even match, because they would have the strength and probable height advantage.

A college level female archer posted this on reddit in response to a question as to why there are separate male and female categories:

Men and women compete separately in individual archery competition because men's scores are typically higher. For example, the new WRs are 700 (male) and 673 (female).

This is in large part due to the men having higher arrow speeds. Higher speed leads to higher scores because higher arrow speed = less wind interference + more forgiveness for form mistakes. As such, men don't have to account for the wind as much or be as precise with their movements. (They're still REALLY precise though!)

So how do men get this higher arrow speed? Two major reasons:

longer arms = longer draw length (basically how far you can pull back the bow)

stronger muscles = able to handle higher draw weight (basically how much force the arrows leaves the bow with)

So in conclusion, different physiologies require different categories.

As a side note, I can confirm that breasts DO NOT hinder female archers in any way.

Ironically, Geena Davis's involvement in archery apparently inspired many girls to take up the sport. How many such girls would drop out if they were competing against biological males?

Helleofabore · 07/07/2021 12:54

As a side note, I can confirm that breasts DO NOT hinder female archers in any way.

But fuck it hurts when they get twanged!!!

Runningupthecurtains · 07/07/2021 13:13

@IsItShining

If it’s within the rules, it isn’t cheating.

It’s the rules that are wrong.

The question is how did the rules get to be wrong? Did women spontaneous decide to make female categories open categories? No entitled males demanded to be accepted as women.

As I have said elsewhere who ever is orchestrating this should get a gold medal, there are playing a blinder. The TW that are going to the Olympics have been perfectly chosen. They are in non-contact sports so no danger of having to explain away any horrific injuries to actual women. They are two decades older than the likely winners in their events so they are unlike to win by a country mile (as men in their 20's would). They are events that favour tall/strong women so there is less of a visual contrast. They are "minority" sports so will be far less visible than a TW in the athletics. All our arguments will be countered, we will be shouted down but the precedent will be set and when the next Games come along the flood gates will open and women's sport will cease to be as competition for women. Hubbard and Barrett are Trojan horses and the "be kind" generation will be totally surprised when Troy is in flames in a few years time.

somethinginoffensive · 07/07/2021 13:44

Hubbard and Barrett are Trojan horses and the "be kind" generation will be totally surprised when Troy is in flames in a few years time.

This is so depressing, am going to do all the emailing and protesting I can to fight this.

If you watch the responses to the protest outside the New Zealand embassy about Hubbard you'll see a very positive response. The average person in the street knows cheating when they see it.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 07/07/2021 13:55

Ripx’s tweet.

All those examples from struggler to champ - it’s a miracle!!!!

For those who claim no advantage it surely is.

Ah but wait though. Naw it isnae.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 07/07/2021 14:36

Of course there is advantage - Slower heart rate and greater upper body strength for starters.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 07/07/2021 14:43

Sorry toffee

I was being snarky and my eye roll 🙄 didnt pop out. Sorry.

I’m usually a stickler for rules.

This sort of mince has made me unsticklery. 😡

Shedbuilder · 07/07/2021 14:58

Have only ever had a couple of brief archery sessions but it struck me at the time that breasts were a real drawback. I seem to remember the bowstring digging into me each time I drew it back. And you have to have a lot of upper body and arm strength — and guess which sex has more?

trancepants · 07/07/2021 15:19

A biological female outlier does not prove that biological men have no advantages.

I'm not saying it does. Just that in extreme cases it is possible for a woman in her 40s to excel at a new to them sport. I found out about Davis when I was looking up people who did really well at a sport they took up in their 40s as I took up a sport in my 40s and discovered I'm really good at it and people like Davis make me feel a hell of a lot less limited by my age.

I'm never going to make it to the Olympics or anything remotely close but I have become fitter and stronger than the majority of women with better endurance than most people male or female. However my sport is niche, especially for women so I train mainly with men and even though I'm in better shape than pretty much all of those men and am more skilled than a lot of them, I can't compete with them. The basic speed and strength of a man even a decade older than me in so-so shape makes my fitness and skill almost irrelevant. They would destroy me and as it's a contact sport, I'd get very hurt.

I'm very strongly opposed to people who were born male taking women's sporting places. I consider it cheating. I did before I became athletic myself and I consider it far, far worse now. I know how hard I work and how much what I achieve means to me, I find what's happening currently in women's sport utterly fucking belittling. And I have absolutely met men who clearly delight in the fact that they are faster and stronger than me. That even though I'm in close to peak physical shape and they are a little older and pot-bellied, they can outperform me. If I wasn't so clearly fit, they wouldn't care but it's like they need to prove their superiority in spite of my fitness. So I can absolutely see how there are male born people who are just absolutely intent on showing women that no matter how fit and strong and top of their game they are, their mediocre asses are better.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 07/07/2021 16:09

@Shedbuilder

Have only ever had a couple of brief archery sessions but it struck me at the time that breasts were a real drawback. I seem to remember the bowstring digging into me each time I drew it back. And you have to have a lot of upper body and arm strength — and guess which sex has more?
I used to do it when I was younger - only walloped a boob once (I was quite large back then) and that was my own fault. More often you'd hit the inside of your arm (which would hurt like hell if you didn't wear a bracer).

And the boys did have a strength advantage. Plus your bow and the string (and all the the bits) are based on your height (it's been a long time) and from memory, the draw is measured in poundage and length of your arms(?). If I picked up one of the senior's bows, chanced are the arrow would stay put and I'd be fired backwards! Grin

happydappy2 · 07/07/2021 16:17

Anyone know who is the woman who has missed her chance to compete at the olympics, because a male has muscled in?

PaterPower · 07/07/2021 17:19

Not sure if this link will work:
www.instagram.com/p/CNINObggwsg?

It’s a photo of the Canadian contestants in the women’s Olympic qualifier competition she placed silver in. She enjoys a considerable height advantage over her team mates.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 07/07/2021 18:08

Oh it works.

Albatross amongst the pidges.

Congressdingo · 07/07/2021 19:26

@IsItShining

If it’s within the rules, it isn’t cheating.

It’s the rules that are wrong.

Very true, and also what the hell happened to sportsmanship?

"fair and generous behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a sporting contest"
What's currently happening is neither fair or generous.
I guess women can always "just be kind" until there is no more sports for women left eh?

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 07/07/2021 19:35

@Hestyo

Pandering to male delusions is so much more important than women's rights to fair competition.
Well, obviously. We have forgotten our rightful place and should slink back into it grateful to be alive.
Sophoclesthefox · 07/07/2021 19:48

I’ve loved the Olympics since I was a little pony mad girl, watching my heroes showjumping in Los Angeles. I’ve always watched, and I love discovering and getting obsessed with slightly obscure sports. I love the ceremonies. I love the stories of grit and determination, overcoming obstacles, heartbreak and bad luck, comebacks and almost never weres.

It’s never been perfect, of course. Remember it was only in London in 2012 that women were able to compete in all the sports, and also it was the first time that all the participating countries fielded women.

2012 was the first Olympiad to actually have full female representation

And now this? Less than ten years to roll back that massive achievement and make sure that women don’t get a fair go again.

Balls to you, IOC, you mimsy quisling fucks.

Congressdingo · 07/07/2021 19:56

Balls to you, IOC, you mimsy quisling fucks
Love this, very apt.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 07/07/2021 20:09

186cm and 86kg and that jaw!

I mean seriously this is just becoming a joke

RedDogsBeg · 07/07/2021 20:39

@Clymene

Cheaters gonna cheat
Yes, and there is NO difference between this and cheating through doping. This is plain and simple cheating, it's disgusting and those that support it are equally abhorrent.
toffeebutterpopcorn · 08/07/2021 17:49

And I’m hotdog eating competitions (I’m not joking it popped up in my newsfeed).

“... ate 30 hotdogs to win the women’s division and $10,000 prize at the Nathan’s Famous Hot Dog Eating Contest last weekend in the United States.” They had previously entered the men’s competition but didn’t do all that well.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 08/07/2021 18:58

There really are no limits eh toffee?
🌭

Whatever next?

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