Helen Joyce book in MoS

[WeeSisters]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753017/HELEN-JOYCE-argues-gender-self-identification-lobby-harming-children-women-trans-people.html

Excellent summary of Helen Joyce’s book on Trans which comes out next week. Helen is a journalist at the Economist and has that penetrating analytical style which articulates exactly why something which sounds so well-intentioned is actually deeply problematic.

I am going to send copies (anonymously) to my CEO and diversity officer. It can’t hurt.

Ooh I've just posted. I'll ask to delete my thread!

I also added this article they have from Holly Branson.

'I spent seven years identifying as a boy': Richard Branson's daughter
mol.im/a/9753083

Holly Branson talking about how she wore boys clothes and adopted a boys name from age 4 - 11yrs until she asked for a dress and grew out of the phase. I didn't know that Holly had qualified as a doctor. I assume she is concerned about the medicalisation of children such as herself in her youth.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a DM article where the comments aren’t full of “jokey”, offensive, goady, provocative comments. Literally every comment on there was in support of the article. Got a few people I’m going to try to steer towards it - fingers crossed the message will be received by them.

It’s a well written article.

That is a very well written and coherent article, which is not always the case in the mail. I truly hope that this book is widely read, especially by those who have the power to protect us and our institutions from the authoritarian excesses of gender identity ideology and queer theory.

Its a good article and it's good that the issue is being picked up, you used to only see it in paid publications like the Times. Hopefully more people are becoming aware.

Thanks WeeSisters. That's such a good informative article.

I’m also pleased to see this article.

Who’d’a thought that MNetters would approve of DM articles

A similar book questioning this current trend is Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shriver.

Who’d’a thought that MNetters would approve of DM articles

Well, this one's not really a DM article - it's a book extract.

(But the DM have been doing good articles on this topic!)

The DM have been very good on this issue. And The Times. And The Observer. But not The Guardian.

Excellent article. I've got the book on pre-order. I can't wait to read it.

I bloody love Helen Joyce, she's properly smart. I too have the book on pre-order and can't wait to read it

Excellent article and I also posted it - will also get it deleted

Is anyone on for a book sending campaign? My org is a Stonewall Champion and I’ll send a copy to my CEO and also to my MP.

So many people are going along with Stonewall demands because at first glance it seems like the kind, inclusive thing to do but there is nothing kind about sending rapists to women’s prisons.

Daley Thompson supporting Helen

mobile.twitter.com/Daley_thompson/status/1411452605746843649

A book sending campaign would be excellent!
I suggest these three:

Irreversible Damage - Abigail Shriver
Material Girls - Kathleen Stock
Trans - Helen Joyce

To ALL headteachers and school leaders for a start.

Wow. The daily mail is a huge influence. Amazing to see that article in there, and it is quite hard to argue with Joyce's points. verything she states is worthy of debate. Everything.

How can anyone take Stonewall seriously? They are lobbyists, not medics, scientists sociologists or philosophers. Where have those people been in all this? How on earth have Stonewall managed to trample over common sense?

Am off to google whether Virgin are stonewall champions.

Good idea. Happy to also send one to my (rather sensible) HT.

That's a decent book extract.

Daley Thompson turned out for the WPUK sports event where Sharron Davies was one of the speakers.

I wonder if just sending Helen’s book is better. I liked Shrier but found her a little sensationalised and Stock good but academic. As an Economist writer, Helen is thorough and unemotional.

I love the way Helen Joyce's brain works. She's so smart.

Good article. I've been looking forward to reading Helen's book since she announced she was writing it.

I have to question this bit though. It's something virtually all authors and journalists preface their writing with but recently I'm questioning how true it actually is.

As well as serving the interests of trans people very poorly, the ideological focus of this powerful lobby means it seeks to silence anyone who does not support gender self-identification.

What's more, I fear, its overreach is likely to provoke a backlash that will harm ordinary trans people who simply want safety and social acceptance.

This idea of a silent majority of trans people (especially ones born male) who do not agree with the direction of travel pushed by activists and lobbyists. How true is this exactly?

I've been following this issue from a women's rights perspective for roughly 6/7 years now and I can still only think of a handful of people who identify as transgender/transsexual who have spoken up with any real disagreement.

I'm not convinced in one sense that this powerful lobby is serving the interests of the majority poorly. If we go back as far as the early days of The Beaumont Society I think there's more evidence to suggest what is happening is what has always been wanted and actually interests are being served very well.

I know the narrative that 'ordinary trans people' are going be harmed and don't want this either is a popular one amongst people who are critical of gender ideology but is that true really? Or is it just something we've been telling ourselves?

Excellent article. And looks like Dawkins has come off the fence in style:

"A frighteningly necessary book: well-written, thoroughly researched, passionate and very brave.' - Richard Dawkins, evolutionary biologist"

popular one amongst people who are critical of gender ideology but is that true really? Or is it just something we've been telling ourselves?

I'm apprehensive about a backlash that might reduce rights for many groups as part of a general pushback. It's not unusual in history to the point where it's common enough that it's known as Thermidorian reaction.

For historians of revolutionary movements, the term Thermidor has come to mean the phase in some revolutions when power slips from the hands of the original revolutionary leadership and a radical regime is replaced by a more conservative regime, sometimes to the point where the political pendulum may swing back towards something resembling a pre-revolutionary state.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermidorian_Reaction