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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Only one way to be a girl

31 replies

LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 21:28

I’ve NC for this. My 14 yr old daughter has been breast binding. We’ve talked about feminism and trans stuff for a while now. She was always interested in feminism, never a stereotypically “girly” girl. I hoped I was helping her see that women come in all shapes and sizes, can do what they want, look how they want. But her group have been very into gay and trans stuff, former, no prob, but usual mis information re latter - suicide and mortality stats.
Every girl around here at the local schools looks the same, I kid you not - all have long hair, centre parting, it’s scary. She has very short hair, always wears trousers at school.
So, I had a word with a few teachers/nurse at school re the binder on the basis of safeguarding. I think they’re better than most schools - agree the safety issues, work with parents etc, but one said “oh yes, we thought given that she wears trousers and doesn’t look like the other girls, that she may be questioning her gender identity”.
My heart just broke. Is there no room for girls who DON’T want to look like the prescribed image ? What are we telling our girls? There is just this ONE way to “be a girl”, and if you don’t do it right, people will think you must be ‘trans”, really a “boy”? If all around are thinking this - including whoever got her the binder - what chance does she have? I feel broken, so sad, so angry with a very dysfunctional world at the moment. I know all the stuff that is going on, have raised my kids to be themselves, ignoring stereotype, but I feel the world is against me.

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somethinginoffensive · 03/07/2021 21:47

I really feel for you. Schools are much more conformist for girls than they were in the 80s.

Melroses · 03/07/2021 22:04

When my girls were at school, they had banned skirts so everyone wore trousers.

Before that, there was a lot of peer pressure to wear shorter and shorter skirts and girls who wore trousers were picked on as lesbians. Fortunately binders were not a thing then.

School is a tough place. I really feel for you Flowers

FemaleAndLearning · 03/07/2021 22:07

I feel for you and agree most girls at secondary look like clones. My daughter hasn't been at school much the last two years and in that time has had her hair cut short and wears more masculine clothes. I'm just waiting for some well meaning therapist to suggest her problems stem from her questioning her identity as a girl. She is very much girl equals young female human. She has a girlfriend and she is slowly converting her view that women are non men and that lesbians relationships are between two non men! There are several girls who claim to be trans in her year (8) but my daughter thinks they are just lesbians. Even at her young age she is well aware that lesbian is not a cool word.
At her age I too had short hair but then I was a teenager in the 80s.
I don't have any advice other than to drip feed 8nformation in a non confrontational way.

JellySlice · 03/07/2021 22:16

There is just one way to be a girl, and that is to not have the Y chromosome. The biological aspects of being a girl follow from that.

Anything else is what society imposes on her, her response to society, and her personality. None of them make her a girl.

JellySlice · 03/07/2021 22:18

Sorry, don't mean to be snappish. I also have a teenage dd caught up in this quagmire.

LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 22:19

I think it was just a shock. Just a girl that wears trousers and has short hair must be thinking that maybe she is a boy. ??
I just thought, what the hell chance do they have? We know that teenagers are so vulnerable to how others perceive them. Their peers think this. The teachers think this. It is truly dangerous.

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LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 22:20

@JellySlice I absolutely agree.

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Peppallama · 03/07/2021 22:25

It makes you wish there was no 'trans' and we just had femmen and womascs as cargories if people must have catgories.

BatmansBat · 03/07/2021 22:30

OP I am so sorry. I wish I had some advice.

If it was my daughter, I think I would try to take her away for the summer and ban all internet access. But I really don’t have experience with this.

AfternoonToffee · 03/07/2021 22:33

I am so sorry OP. I worry at times about my DD (15) as she too could be swept up in this by the right / wrong people. I am however grateful that her main friendship group haven't really brought into it and there are enough of them with their own styles that they just go about their day to day.

It's just ridiculous that short hair and trousers = boy.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/07/2021 22:34

Blimey.

DD went to a girls' school, just a few years ago (graduated today) - her friends ran the gamut from very feminine to two who chose to wear suits bought from a menswear department to their school prom (DD was somewhat envious mainly because they could wear sensible shoes with their suits I think, but she wasn't tall enough for such attire). But there was never any suggestion they were anything other than girls - no name changing, no 'pronouns'.

TinaBarrow · 03/07/2021 22:36

This makes me feel so so sad.
When I was at school 100 years ago girls used to tell me "if you were a boy I would fancy you" & I just used to think WTF? I wasn't a fucking boy!

LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 22:38

@BatmansBat I have banned internet and the breast binder which she has accepted. Am keeping her very busy with mix of chores and things she likes doing. But never have I been so pit-of-the-stomach scared.

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LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 22:40

@ErrolTheDragon - that is exactly how it should be!

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FloralBunting · 03/07/2021 23:14

LizzieHexam, firstly, well done. You sound like you're engaged and on the ball. My daughter ID'd as trans at around the same age. She's now nearly 18 and cheerfully non conforming in many ways and much happier in her own skin. I also said no to a binder.

My main advice is to keep going. Keep reassuring her there is no one way to be a girl, that she is free to be herself, and keep the lines of communication open, whatever happens. Tell her the truth, and give her a broad view of the world.

For all the shit that gets thrown at our kids, you are still her primary influence, even at 14, and as long as she knows she can trust you, and that you love her, you genuinely are in the best position you can be. Solidarity to you x

ArabellaScott · 03/07/2021 23:16

I'm really sorry, OP. It must be very hard to come up against this.

It's absurd that wearing trousers is seen as meaning someone is questioning their 'gender identity'. Utterly absurd, offensive, idiotic - I could go on.

LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 23:27

@FloralBunting Thank you - it is good to know they can get through it. To think they can do anything that could harm them or damage their bodies is so unbearable.
I think my daughter is just so painfully self conscious of her body as it develops - which I was too. Adolescence is so very hard.

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FloralBunting · 03/07/2021 23:33

Yes, my daughter was flashed on the way home from school for one thing, and she's inherited both her grandmother's sizeable breasts, which she was massively self conscious about. She also liked her hair short (still does!) and was bullied about it. I remember the day she told me 'I'm a boy' so clearly. Brought me back to MN in the end as I researched wtf you were supposed to say to that.

I remember one of the first threads I posted about it, a TRA called me a child abuser for saying 'she' I think and mentioning that she had issues with self harm. Such a caring bunch they are.

LizzieHexam · 03/07/2021 23:52

@FloralBunting. That sounds awful. My DD also developed early and with a large ish chest. Also some self harming and anxiety. The school have a policy of going along with pronouns, although my DD has said nothing about it to them. My gut instinct is to absolutely not to cave to delusion. I can really see how she has fallen into this, and I see my job as a parent to guiding her out.

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FloralBunting · 04/07/2021 00:09

Follow your gut. Never lie to her. What definitely helped us, and has always helped, is that whenever my kids do what kids do, they understand where my boundaries are, and that there is a safe, true place with me. Hold that line. Most important one of all - if they trust you to always tell the truth, it's powerful, and it'll go a long way to keeping them safe.

LizzieHexam · 04/07/2021 00:17

@FloralBunting. Thank you. Totally goes with my thinking. Set the boundaries and don’t lie. Xx

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JustWaking · 04/07/2021 07:38

Have you read this brilliant article where Lauren Black talks about how the way society is towards her as a woman and as a lesbian gave her dysphoria - which she rejects and fights.

I'm a straight woman, but I don't conform to stereotypes of femininity (STEM career, not into clothes and beauty) and the article really spoke to me. It's one of those where it explains something which you didn't know or understand before you read it, but as soon as you do it's completely obvious. Hope it helps your daughter too.

(There have been a couple of threads about it already on the board, but including in case you hadn't seen it.)

ValancyRedfern · 04/07/2021 07:50

You sound like an amazing mum OP. I worry this is the future for dd as well as at 7 years old she already the only girl in the class with short hair and wearing trousers. Another resource worth looking at/showing your DD is Lily Maynard excellent essay about her daughter who id'd as trans, which also had a section written by her daughter, who desisted. I will try to find the link but try googling Lily Maynard and Trans-topia.

ValancyRedfern · 04/07/2021 07:51

Here you go lilymaynard.com/my-first-article-a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia/

JustWaking · 04/07/2021 07:54

*sorry - just to clarify, I've never had dysphoria or questioned that I'm a woman. But reading the article, I saw how that could so easily have been me either if I was a lesbian or if I had been growing up now, when social pressure is so strong to question your identity if you don't follow the exact same cookie-cutter mould.

I vividly remember thinking that everything I liked doing was much harder for me because I was a woman, and none of the benefits of being a woman were anything I wanted (I didn't want kids for years). But luckily for me, that was 20 years ago and no one suggested to me that I wasn't a woman so I just got on with being me as best I could. Very much hope your daughter likewise manages to find a way to be herself - her whole, wonderful, unique, individual self.