Do people really believe this?

[Queuingroundtheblock]

I know lots of people have had the same experience of losing friends over this but it has just happened to me and I can hardly believe it. Fell out with a gay male friend of over 30 years because he thinks I am bigotted for not believing TWAW. His reason? They (TW) have different chromosomes to men. When I pointed out that this isn't true he doubled down and said it was and that a lot of them were more female than me because they reasoned and dressed like real women. We are now avoiding the subject but basically now I know what he really thinks of women! Where does this different chromosome thing come from though? He seemed to think it was common knowledge. Is this something we should be insisting on correcting?

It’s confusion caused by TRAs aligning themselves with intersex conditions.

The chromosomes thing is obviously bs but I’ve no idea where that comes from & yes we should definitely be correcting it.

Your friend sounds incredibly sexist too. How does one reason & dress more like a women ffs??

It's true that it is a belief that is out there, I've no idea how common it is.

Can you think of the scale of gaslighting and misrepresentation involved to confuse an adult in this way?

Oddly, MN advertising chose this moment to give me this advert.

Yes. People really believe this shite. I’ve had people just automatically block me

How does one reason & dress more like a women ffs??
Yes, I wasn't too impressed by that! Btw - TWAW and TMAM - but he wouldn't date a TM!!

@Queuingroundtheblock

How does one reason & dress more like a women ffs?? Yes, I wasn't too impressed by that! Btw - TWAW and TMAM - but he wouldn't date a TM!!

It tells you a lot about his attitude to stereotypes and caricatures.

On your behalf, I'm irritated that he wouldn't even considered that you'd made a fair point when you questioned if he would consider one as an intimate partner.

How does he think male bodies are formed?? Does he think men have a Y-chromosome and then suddenly don't?

You could also ask him how 'real women' dress and reason.

I know it's pointless, and that's not really why you're posting. But honestly, it's just all so ignorant.

I mean, you could ask him those questions, and at least it might give him food for thought.

Well he’s a massive hypocrite isn’t he! Wouldn’t date a trans man even though they ‘have different chromosomes to women’ and are more manly than men because of how they dress etc?! Your friend is a twat and I’d be well shot of him tbh. He’s told you who he really is, which is a misogynistic prick, believe him.

Is he one of those ghastly genital fetishists for insisting that his male partner has a penis? It seems he’s a transphobe - maybe you should tell him to educate himself.

I think the reason so many gay men are all TWAW is because it doesn't really impact on them in any way so they cam afford to give away women's rights. They don't consider women as equal human beings and are deeply misogynist

a lot of them were more female than me because they reasoned and dressed like real women.

Reason like real women? Does he mean they’re all silly and emotional, and get confused by parking and maths? Did you ask him to spell that out? He sounds delightful.
(Also I’m not sure the phrase “real women” is one he should be using if he wants to call others bigots. “Real women” would surely be considered quite offensive to TW)

Did you ask him to spell that out?
Yes and of course he couldn't. Tbf I think he has no idea about what is actually going on now and I hope he will reflect on what I said and realise how sexist he is being. Pretty gutted though. We have been through a lot together and I thought he had more sense.

@Queuingroundtheblock

How does one reason & dress more like a women ffs?? Yes, I wasn't too impressed by that! Btw - TWAW and TMAM - but he wouldn't date a TM!!

Then he doesn't believe, does he?

Wow what an idiot,

The answer to anyone who tells you trans people are biologically different, such as having different chromosomes, is that then surely they can’t support self-ID. If it was in the chromosomes you could just have a test instead so we’d know who was really trans and who was being predatory or was mistaken and would later detransition.

But also yes if he wouldn’t date a TM then he’s being doubly ridiculous. You have to accept TW are not just women, but MORE woman than you (honestly he’d have got both barrels from me for that!) but he doesn’t have to think a TM is a real man at all? He does realise he’s transphobic according to TRAs?

I have had this too. It comes from an unacknowledged bias in believing men's experience over women's experience I think. So a woman says - this is how I feel and this is what I understand. That will have less weight/value than a man saying this is how I feel and this is what I understand. Therefore if a man says TWAW then a woman arguing against that has less weight in the argument.

Listening to Debbie Hayton talk about the difference in approach in meetings. If Debbie attends a meeting where Debbie's trans status is not clear, so attending presenting as female Debbie says opinion is not sought, holds less weight, is asked for last. But experience presenting as male is entirely different. Always says, with humour and self-effacement then when presents as trans, opinion is put on a pedastal. I have just listened to Debbie interviewed by Triggernometry boys in March 21. It was a great interview, I find I have a lot of time for the points made.

A presenter put this argument of transpeople having 'partial' Y chromosomes yesterday (not forming a complete Y is what I took it to mean) so being 'more female than male' He was talking about intersex conditions as if it applied broadly to everyone Identifying as trans. It was the caller (a man who held his argument well) that corrected and said that would be an intersex person and would only apply to a very small cohort of people.

I'm glad the caller had a firm grip on his argument or anyone listening in would have come away with the impression that every self identifying trans person has a genetic physical condition that justifies their feelings.

Yes, people do believe what their social group tells them to believe.

Yes it's BS. TWs dress how they bloody well want to. Maybe he's confusing the hypothalamus difference thing with chromosomes.

Did he elaborate on why he won't date a TM? It doesn't sound like he accepts TM as men.

And in fact, by his reasoning, does that mean that some TM are more of a man than he is? Or did this only apply to TW?

His reason? They (TW) have different chromosomes to men.

Does he also think some illnesses result from demonic possession of your body and mind?

Is it ignorance or wilfully denying reality? Some people seem to have gone into another dark age. There is a lot of propaganda being spread though. Just made up nonsense which those with no critical think ability lazily absorb for various reasons. Maybe virtual signalling approval. Or to enjoy harassment and punching down.

Probably the latter sentence then. He seems happy when it comes to women being f*cked around by this ideology, but isn't a believer when it comes to his views on women. He doesn't profess this belief when it comes to women identifying out of their biology and reality.

Over the past few years it's become apparent to me that humanity is afflicted in the main with a toxic mix of laziness and a large proportion of us just not being able to reason logically.
Frankly, I think that fact that we are intelligent enough as a species to create amazing technical advances is utterly astonishing when you honestly address how remarkably gullible and biddable we are as a species.

When I pointed out that this isn't true he doubled down and said it was and that a lot of them were more female than me because they reasoned and dressed like real women.

I know internet discussions can be quite robust, but it's another thing hearing something like that from a long-time friend.

Yet another case of gender identity in the streets, sex matters in the sheets, as well. I do wonder what people that say this sort of thing really think.

Sorry you had to deal with that OP. He sounds like a rubbish friend with a seam of misogyny running through him.

I’ve read that “TW are MORE womanly than c** women because they take better care of their grooming” BS so many times it’s getting tiring. Presumably I’m agender despite my XX chromosomes because I have polish-free nails and no lippy on. Give me a break.

I was listening to Jane Clare Jones on Glinner’s podcast and she said a TW friend said to her they were surprised they were still good at maths after transitioning. but it does show up people’s real views of women.