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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UN Report erases female people as a distinct group

38 replies

CharlieParley · 28/06/2021 00:13

The UN-appointed Independent Expert on on protection against violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity presented a report this week deeply steeped in the doctrine of gender identity. Here is an excerpt from the press release (my comments in bold):

“Gender theory is a powerful tool to address the oppression of female or non-normative identities,” the report says. “Feminist struggle and the fight to live free from violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity are deeply intertwined, and they reinforce each other.”

[This gobbledygook is typical for the report. Throughout, the report conflates the feminist analysis of gender as a tool for women's oppression on the basis of their sex and the doctrine of gender identity as "gender theory". It is at times impossible to parse which meaning of "gender theory" is being referred to. It also uses gender to mean the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes imposed on us by society as well as sex and gender identity throughout the report, in a way that makes it difficult to understand what exactly is being referred to.]

By grounding his report in international human rights law, Madrigal-Borloz hopes that his report will dispute certain current popular arguments that he said “are plagued with misconceptions, stigma and prejudice.” The report was based on submissions by more than 500 individuals and groups with a wide variety of opinions.

[The report dismisses feminist objections to the doctrine of gender identity and its political implications for the rights of women and girls as unfounded, anecdotal, discriminatory and prejudiced. Despite the claim above, there is no actual engagement with our arguments and no real analysis. The report also emphatically rejects the argument that there is any evidence that women's and girls' sports are under threat if males are included. The report concludes its sparse acknowledgment of feminist objections to the doctrine of gender identity and its political implications for the rights of women and girls by demanding that state actors assess all measures taken for women through an intersectional lens that considers the needs of male transgender people as integral to the measures. Again the report refers to inclusion in sport.]

[The report also misrepresents CEDAW, which refers to sex and pretends throughout that sex no longer exists as a concept in law. It also ignores completely the 2017 judgement of the European Court of Human Rights which explained at length why states have a right to insist on safeguards and safekeeping before allowing a change of legal sex.]

For a tiny percentage of the world’s population, he said, gender norms result in privilege, but “for most of humankind – particularly women and people whose gender identity and/or expression do not fit squarely within the male/female binary – they will lead to discrimination and violence.”

[Although the feminist analysis of gender posits that males both as a group and as individuals are also harmed by stereotypes, it rightly recognises that such harm does not lessen the much more damaging use of gender as a tool for the oppression of females in a male-dominated world. By this framing of the issue, male domination on the basis of sex disappears.]

Madrigal-Borloz called on States to adopt a gender-based analysis to address the root causes of violence and discrimination against persons because of their gender, gender identity and/or gender expression and sexual orientation. He also called for a world accepting gender diversity based on self-determination.

[Doubling down on erasing sex as the basis of women's oppression and ignoring that male violence against women and girls happens on the basis of their sex.]

[The report also claims that the Yogyakarta Principles were adopted on the basis of a standard interdisciplinary identification methodology that considered all relevant international and national laws. We know, however, from a lengthy interview with one of the authors of the Yogyakarta Principles that women's rights were not considered at all in the drafting process.]

“States must do more to provide legal recognition of gender identity consistent with the rights to freedom from discrimination, equal protection of the law, privacy, identity and freedom of expression,” he said. “This means, among other things, that the administrative process must be simple, based on the applicant’s choice, and must not require intrusive or abusive measures such as surgery or hormone treatment. The gender identity of minors must also be respected under the law.”

[The requirement for a medical diagnosis or divorce are also included under abusive measures. Whether the latter includes provisions such as the UK's spousal exit clause is not clear from the report.]

Governments have a fundamental duty to prevent, prosecute and punish violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression, the report says, “and to recognise every human being’s freedom to determine the confines of their existence, including gender identity and expression.”

[Sex as the basis of women's oppression is frequently ignored in this report, even though it purports to be about protecting women. We are referred to as "female and non-normative genders" in the expert's speech.]

[In its demands, the report also does not distinguish between countries where male and female transgender people have equal rights just like all other people and countries where they have none at all. A differentiated approach would have been much more useful.]

In many countries of the world, June has been designated the month of pride, “meant to signify the ability of lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and gender diverse persons to occupy public space in full freedom and equality, and the recognition of the value of their contribution to the social fabric,” he said.

[Despite a heavy emphasis on women being one of the groups to be protected, we are dropped from the narrative as and when it seems expedient. Just as here.]

To make these a reality, “States must uphold rights related to gender and sexuality as universal and inalienable, and ensure recognition of the right to bodily and mental integrity, autonomy and self-determination of everyone,” said Madrigal-Borloz.

[This includes a demand for recognition of sexual rights for everyone. The report does not distinguish between children and adults and the special protections children are placed under by UN law, especially in regard to sexual exploitation and abuse.]
------

The press release is here: www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=27215&LangID=E

The report can be downloaded on this page: www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/SexualOrientationGender/Pages/ReportGenderTheory.aspx

It seems to only be available as a Word document.

Finally, for a report that purports to be about "gender theory" and has been lauded as providing empirical evidence that so-called "gender critical" views have no basis in fact, it is disappointingly light on actual theory.

And of course, it does no such thing. It's a policy document that provides neither empirical evidence supporting the doctrine of gender identity nor empirical evidence refuting the belief that sex is real and matters. There is no empirical evidence of that kind presented in the report itself, neither in the text itself nor its references. If there is supporting material connected to this report that provides such evidence, I haven't found it.

P.S. The repeated reference to cis lesbians throughout the report annoyed me immensely. The sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes associated with the female sex frame heterosexuality as the norm. This is one of the, if not the most important expectation society places on women and girls. That we love and desire men. A woman-loving-woman cannot therefore be cis by definition.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 28/06/2021 01:03

'Gender theory is a powerful tool to address the oppression of female or non-normative identities'

Non men then. Again.

Female is a non normative 'identity'??!!

Male as default in glowing neon for this person.

Fallingirl · 28/06/2021 02:31

Just when you thought you couldn’t be shocked anymore. This garble is astonishing; makes you wonder whether it is deliberately misogynist or whether the author is just immensely thick. How the hell can the UN get away with publishing something that would fail on any first year undergraduate course?

Well done for wading through that lot, Charlie. Can’t have been easy for your blood pressure.

timeisnotaline · 28/06/2021 02:37

What a nausea inducing pile of codswallop.

CharlieParley · 28/06/2021 02:57

Can’t have been easy for your blood pressure.

My blood pressure was unaffected, but my eye-roll-muscles got a good workout. And I kept hoping for that promised engagement and evidence, but only got more eye-roll motivation. Besides, I read the previous report of conversion therapy and some other stuff out of this working group, none of which was in my opinion worthy of the UN label, so I had an inkling of the nonsense that would be in this report.

OP posts:
MoonlightApple · 28/06/2021 09:59

Non-normative?!? Why is female always lumped in with the ‘other’ category.

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2021 11:26

Really worrying. Bookmarking to read more later.

JustcameoutGC · 28/06/2021 12:43

It is all sounding to me more and more like the nature (biological sex) versus nurture (gender identity) debate. We have always seen development as a balance of the two, but now, it looks like nurture all the way. What we are born with doesn't matter its what we do with it that counts.

Tanith · 28/06/2021 16:43

I read it as female being separate from “non-normative identities”.

And, if “non-normative identities” means what I think it does, it’s surely saying oppressed identities that are not female are abnormal Shock

NiceGerbil · 28/06/2021 17:19

I'm pretty sure that women are the main group of non normative identities Hmm

stumbledin · 28/06/2021 19:57

I am not supporting this report but I read it and thought what it was saying is that violence against someone because of their gender identity is "entwined" with the struggle to end violence against women.

What they want to do is make gender identity to be recognised international law. And to make violence against someone because of their gender identity on a par with violence against women.

ie the same as Stonewall etc., want to make gender identity a protected characteristic.

The worry is that whether on a UN level or a UK level this is the start of getting rid of the concept of biological sex as being the basis for discrimination and violence. (Not helped by the fact that the UN and others are already using the words sex and gender as interchangeable).

There's a "Generation Equality Forum" in Paris this week and this article from the UN focuses on violence against women and girls. www.independent.co.uk/voices/women-domestic-violence-gender-equality-b1872686.html

This is the link to the web site about the forum forum.generationequality.org/ and have no doubt that there are weasel words in their chipping away at the concept that women as a sex class are oppressed and subject to violence from the male sex class.

Tanith · 28/06/2021 20:19

@NiceGerbil

I'm pretty sure that women are the main group of non normative identities Hmm
I’m sure they are, and that was what was intended. It’s such muddled and badly expressed gobbledegook that it really isn’t clear what it’s trying to say at all.
NiceGerbil · 28/06/2021 20:37

Yes exactly this guy has

Men

Non men, including
Women
And
Other non normative identities

So that's us told.

I also think that, whatever the arguments around it all. Referring to non normative identities is really outdated shitty language.

I thought we had got away generally from calling anyone who was a bit different, not 'normal'.

Note that he is saying that well over half the world's population are not 'normal'.

All the women, gay men, lesbians and bisexual people, anyone who steps outside their gender role in terms of dress, abilities, thoughts, who rights against the oppression of gender role, even those who don't marry, have children etc etc are breaching gender role.

So that's... Massive numbers of people. Including loads of blokes.

And yet he thinks of the smaller group of heterosexual, gender conforming/ enforcing etc etc men as the 'norm'.

I think he's the wrong penis person for the job.

littlbrowndog · 28/06/2021 20:42

Been paid lots of money to write some stuff no one can understand

My eyes are rolling

NiceGerbil · 28/06/2021 20:53

It's written like that in the hope that people won't try to understand and think oh it's a complex area and he's an expert

When you try and follow any of this it's invariably sexist, illogical and inconsistent.

Why the hell everyone is cheering it on is baffling.

Tanith · 29/06/2021 10:23

Reminds me of my yarn drawer when the kids have been at it:
A complete mess of tangled wool that takes ages to unknot.
Then you find the one thread that’s causing most of the trouble (misogyny) and it all unravels.

CharlieParley · 30/06/2021 00:26

@Tanith

Reminds me of my yarn drawer when the kids have been at it: A complete mess of tangled wool that takes ages to unknot. Then you find the one thread that’s causing most of the trouble (misogyny) and it all unravels.
I agree. If they accepted women and girls as equal, if they saw us as people and not non-normative non-men, I don't think they could have produced this report.
OP posts:
SmallPug · 30/06/2021 06:53

Anything to be done about this? Kind of makes me think we are just losing the battle if it's going to continue to be promoted by the UN

FindTheTruth · 16/11/2021 21:23

@ArabellaScott thank you for pointing to this thread
I was looking into Lord Herbert following the Boris red box No. 10 Nicca Costa story, the dodgy AF Stonewall run global lgbtq conference in London next year and the LGB Alliance alert on the UN expert.

ECR conference
I came across this summary of the conference attended by Lord Herbert, Madrigal-Borloz, FCDO Foreign office and Argentina, Stonewall, Kaleidoscope International Trust and AFDA. - it is BAD!!!

@CharlieParley Like you Charley, LGB Alliance have alerted the public that UN plans could set back women's, children's and LGB rights back decades. the Equal Rights Coalition ERC and this is what Lord Herbert is an envoy to along with the foreign office minister Wendy Morton. The ERC's aim is to get the Argentinian style gender identity into the national laws and policies of 42 countries.

SCARY AF
Argentina 2012 Gender Identity Law recognises the self perceived identity of each person and their right to dignified treatment, regardless of the sex assigned at birth and their identification records.

Report The Global Launch of the Equal Rights Coalition Strategy July 2021
www.wiltonpark.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/WP1953V-Report.pdf

LGB Alliance report - UN DANGER
UN united nations sexual orientation gender identity (SOGI) expert Victor Madrigal-Borloz could impose extreme gender identity ideology across the UN, UNESCO, WHO and UNHCR.
www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/SexualOrientationGender/Pages/Index.aspx

FindTheTruth · 16/11/2021 21:25

whoops, this is the LGB Alliance report
lgballiance.org.uk/2021/11/14/un-expert-endangers-lgb-rights/

Artichokeleaves · 16/11/2021 21:52

So basically they identify as there being no issues for female humans, and expect female humans to just validate this.

No. I don't think so. Actual engagement with arguments isn't optional.

Pallisers · 16/11/2021 21:55

Gender theory is a powerful tool to address the oppression of female or non-normative identities

I simply can't get over this. Females - fifty percent plus of the world's population and the ones that actually produce every human being on the planet out of their bodies - are now the equivalent of being "non-normative" (whatever that is when it is home). Men are the norm and the rest of us are a ragtaggle, outlaw bunch of well ... not men. The important thing is being a man and now the UN must figure out how to make life a bit easier for the rest of us not lucky enough to be men. Who ARE these people. My dad born in 1926 had a clearer idea of feminism and what women required of men and society.

CheeseMmmm · 16/11/2021 21:59

Still reading op but aghast at

'For a tiny percentage of the world’s population, he said, gender norms result in privilege'.

Doesn't believe that men as a group are generally privileged?

Wtf?

The key here is this report is not about women/ girls it's about LGBT+.

And one of the letters in there needs to have vagina people seen as privileged...

Clear massive issue right there.

CheeseMmmm · 16/11/2021 22:03

This is the UN FFS.

Why not stick to the um. Slightly pressing things like gay men and lesbians being murdered, imprisoned. Corrective rape. For those who do not adhere to gender norms when it comes to behaviour/ dress then well I mean if you get found out same treatment.

I mean FFS there's enough to do surely without wanking on about this.

Work on saving lives and changing laws and social reaction and then when that's done we can talk about this stuff. Sports? There are countries where women aren't allowed to play sports. So. You know. Do something about that?!

CheeseMmmm · 16/11/2021 22:05

That whole fucking press release is just about the T.

I mean FFS. What happened to the lgb?

Artichokeleaves · 16/11/2021 22:09

LGB and females and quite a lot of uncomfortable bits of reality all redefined out of existence to fit selective politics.

Yes, the whole thing is now TQ focused. Not really going to work for everyone else though, which is going to cause everyone including TQ a lot of problems, because you can't just vanish the bits of reality and reframe people into a way you're more comfortable with. As evidenced, the more you try and stuff it under the carpet the more it keeps bursting out and the crosser the people being stuffed tend to get.

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