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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UN Report erases female people as a distinct group

38 replies

CharlieParley · 28/06/2021 00:13

The UN-appointed Independent Expert on on protection against violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity presented a report this week deeply steeped in the doctrine of gender identity. Here is an excerpt from the press release (my comments in bold):

“Gender theory is a powerful tool to address the oppression of female or non-normative identities,” the report says. “Feminist struggle and the fight to live free from violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity are deeply intertwined, and they reinforce each other.”

[This gobbledygook is typical for the report. Throughout, the report conflates the feminist analysis of gender as a tool for women's oppression on the basis of their sex and the doctrine of gender identity as "gender theory". It is at times impossible to parse which meaning of "gender theory" is being referred to. It also uses gender to mean the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes imposed on us by society as well as sex and gender identity throughout the report, in a way that makes it difficult to understand what exactly is being referred to.]

By grounding his report in international human rights law, Madrigal-Borloz hopes that his report will dispute certain current popular arguments that he said “are plagued with misconceptions, stigma and prejudice.” The report was based on submissions by more than 500 individuals and groups with a wide variety of opinions.

[The report dismisses feminist objections to the doctrine of gender identity and its political implications for the rights of women and girls as unfounded, anecdotal, discriminatory and prejudiced. Despite the claim above, there is no actual engagement with our arguments and no real analysis. The report also emphatically rejects the argument that there is any evidence that women's and girls' sports are under threat if males are included. The report concludes its sparse acknowledgment of feminist objections to the doctrine of gender identity and its political implications for the rights of women and girls by demanding that state actors assess all measures taken for women through an intersectional lens that considers the needs of male transgender people as integral to the measures. Again the report refers to inclusion in sport.]

[The report also misrepresents CEDAW, which refers to sex and pretends throughout that sex no longer exists as a concept in law. It also ignores completely the 2017 judgement of the European Court of Human Rights which explained at length why states have a right to insist on safeguards and safekeeping before allowing a change of legal sex.]

For a tiny percentage of the world’s population, he said, gender norms result in privilege, but “for most of humankind – particularly women and people whose gender identity and/or expression do not fit squarely within the male/female binary – they will lead to discrimination and violence.”

[Although the feminist analysis of gender posits that males both as a group and as individuals are also harmed by stereotypes, it rightly recognises that such harm does not lessen the much more damaging use of gender as a tool for the oppression of females in a male-dominated world. By this framing of the issue, male domination on the basis of sex disappears.]

Madrigal-Borloz called on States to adopt a gender-based analysis to address the root causes of violence and discrimination against persons because of their gender, gender identity and/or gender expression and sexual orientation. He also called for a world accepting gender diversity based on self-determination.

[Doubling down on erasing sex as the basis of women's oppression and ignoring that male violence against women and girls happens on the basis of their sex.]

[The report also claims that the Yogyakarta Principles were adopted on the basis of a standard interdisciplinary identification methodology that considered all relevant international and national laws. We know, however, from a lengthy interview with one of the authors of the Yogyakarta Principles that women's rights were not considered at all in the drafting process.]

“States must do more to provide legal recognition of gender identity consistent with the rights to freedom from discrimination, equal protection of the law, privacy, identity and freedom of expression,” he said. “This means, among other things, that the administrative process must be simple, based on the applicant’s choice, and must not require intrusive or abusive measures such as surgery or hormone treatment. The gender identity of minors must also be respected under the law.”

[The requirement for a medical diagnosis or divorce are also included under abusive measures. Whether the latter includes provisions such as the UK's spousal exit clause is not clear from the report.]

Governments have a fundamental duty to prevent, prosecute and punish violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression, the report says, “and to recognise every human being’s freedom to determine the confines of their existence, including gender identity and expression.”

[Sex as the basis of women's oppression is frequently ignored in this report, even though it purports to be about protecting women. We are referred to as "female and non-normative genders" in the expert's speech.]

[In its demands, the report also does not distinguish between countries where male and female transgender people have equal rights just like all other people and countries where they have none at all. A differentiated approach would have been much more useful.]

In many countries of the world, June has been designated the month of pride, “meant to signify the ability of lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and gender diverse persons to occupy public space in full freedom and equality, and the recognition of the value of their contribution to the social fabric,” he said.

[Despite a heavy emphasis on women being one of the groups to be protected, we are dropped from the narrative as and when it seems expedient. Just as here.]

To make these a reality, “States must uphold rights related to gender and sexuality as universal and inalienable, and ensure recognition of the right to bodily and mental integrity, autonomy and self-determination of everyone,” said Madrigal-Borloz.

[This includes a demand for recognition of sexual rights for everyone. The report does not distinguish between children and adults and the special protections children are placed under by UN law, especially in regard to sexual exploitation and abuse.]
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The press release is here: www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=27215&LangID=E

The report can be downloaded on this page: www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/SexualOrientationGender/Pages/ReportGenderTheory.aspx

It seems to only be available as a Word document.

Finally, for a report that purports to be about "gender theory" and has been lauded as providing empirical evidence that so-called "gender critical" views have no basis in fact, it is disappointingly light on actual theory.

And of course, it does no such thing. It's a policy document that provides neither empirical evidence supporting the doctrine of gender identity nor empirical evidence refuting the belief that sex is real and matters. There is no empirical evidence of that kind presented in the report itself, neither in the text itself nor its references. If there is supporting material connected to this report that provides such evidence, I haven't found it.

P.S. The repeated reference to cis lesbians throughout the report annoyed me immensely. The sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes associated with the female sex frame heterosexuality as the norm. This is one of the, if not the most important expectation society places on women and girls. That we love and desire men. A woman-loving-woman cannot therefore be cis by definition.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 16/11/2021 23:04

Argentina: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4281846-Feminism-in-Argentina

randomforme · 16/11/2021 23:14

Females - fifty percent plus of the world's population and the ones that actually produce every human being on the planet out of their bodies - are now the equivalent of being "non-normative" (whatever that is when it is home)
As women it is obvious to us that growing a baby inside you and giving birth to it is an extremely important function and fulfilling thing to do. I think teenage boys and men easily overlook that, if it were not for women giving up 9 months of their life to do this, they literally would not exist. We need to keep reminding them.

randomforme · 16/11/2021 23:17

So if McCarthyism in the 1950s was a 'Reds under the bed' delusion,
this one seems even worse, as QT+ people want people to think they can change sex at will.

PaterPower · 17/11/2021 00:10

”And to make violence against someone because of their gender identity on a par with violence against women.”

Nearly. But I don’t think they’re aiming that low.

After all, what are the real-world consequences of committing violent acts against women? A staggeringly small chance of even being prosecuted (and lower chance of a conviction). And even when convicted, sentences are pathetic.

The TRAs want something MUCH more effective and have shown they’re very willing to flex their Stonewall-captured muscle against the “literal violence” of such heinous acts as deadnaming or stickering. They have to, to put a stop to
the ongoing Trans Genocide (TM)

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 00:30

'”And to make violence against someone because of their gender identity on a par with violence against women.”'

I have a lot of thoughts on this. And a conclusion which I find appalling but unsurprising.

Around the world many countries have laws, extremely punitive laws relating to homosexuality esp gay men and often specifically relating specifically to male- male sex. As we did here not really so long ago.

Also around the world gay men and lesbians are subjected to massive discrimination, violent attacks, rape including 'corrective' rape.

In countries where homosexuality if suspected, discovered, or a brave person comes out that means danger.

When it comes to trans identities. In those societies a woman or a man who does not adhere to social norms/ laws in terms of anything to do with how they look, behave etc is going to be at risk because they will be taken as homosexual. Again, if anyone finds out.

I read a piece about Iran earlier saying things aren't good for non binary people. When it comes to gender though there's a range from not doing anything to change appearance or behaviour to sex dysphoria.

There's a big difference between being homosexual and having to hide it your whole life and marry and have kids and etc. And being non binary opposite sex attracted. Because well. When it comes to how you look and behave men and women have to conform really or be viewed with suspicion. If female then veil is required.

In the end anyone who adopts opposite sex clothes etc will simply be seen as gay and punished accordingly.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 00:35

In countries with those sorts of laws/ massively heavily enforced social norms then the priority surely is to work to change that. Without changing that all LGBT people who do anything at all, even in secret, are at risk of discovery and huge consequences.

So. Where is it? All the LGBT+ groups, the main ones anyway. Seem to be only focused on T with priorities around pronouns, children being able to access medical treatment, having sex erased from basically everything, and insisting that males should be in all single sex spaces if that's where they feel most comfortable.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 00:47

Over and over I see this.

Stonewall could have set up all sorts of things to help transpeople here. Things that come up a lot. Around sexual assault, homelessness. Discrimination in housing and employment. Helplines for trans people who get beaten up. I've seen the stats the orgs produce. And I have no doubt that for those who are presenting as opposite sex all the time, and who aren't in positions of fame or power, do get a lot of shit. There's the high level of MH issues as well.

In fact not only are they not seeming to do anything except issue stats and tell other existing groups to do the work.

I don't think they're even highlighting these things.

I've never seen a piece about eg a trans male with MH probs who has ended up on the streets. Or about specific individuals who have experienced discrimination in finding somewhere to live. You know the sort of pieces you commonly get with a problem and then some individual stories.

Where are they? I only just realised it and that's very strange.

Anyway my conclusion.

Is that how can I put this. This isn't about helping actual vulnerable trans people in the end either. I've seen literally nothing over the years to demonstrate concern or activity of that type.

So that means they have appropriated the struggles of, as already known. LGB people, those with DSDs, women and girls, people subject to racism.

And in fact. The very group they are supposed to be fighting for. The subset of that group who are vulnerable/ extremely vulnerable.

Then I suppose if it's not for who they say it's for. Who is it for?

I think many can see the answer not sure should discuss on the thread though or might go boom.

CheeseMmmm · 17/11/2021 00:47

Sorry for massive posts!

FindTheTruth · 21/11/2021 16:06

DRAFT....

Dear MP / policy maker / GEO / WESC

I note that some MPs and trans lobby groups reference 'the United Nations report on Conversion Therapy' in their support for the UK conversion therapy bill'. This sounds reassuring but it's misleading.

Can you challenge this? with Minister Liz Truss? and when it is tossed out as a 'fact' when the CT bill is debated in the HoC and on TV?

The UN-appointed Independent Expert on sexual orientation and gender identity holds extreme trans activist views and does not consult women, LGB and other stakeholders (who disagree with him) in his reports. He wants gender self identification. He claims that puberty blockers are harmless, that 2 year olds can change sex and he seeks to erase the female sex class as a distinct group in law. He emphatically rejects the argument that there is any evidence that women's and girls' sports are under threat if males are included. His other report X misrepresents CEDAW, which refers to sex and pretends throughout that sex no longer exists as a concept in law.

This trans activist tactic, of referencing other trans activist reports or groups as 'best practice' (as some MPs are doing with the UN SOGI 'expert) to give lobby group demands legitimacy, is covered by Helen Joyce, in her book Trans chapter 11 'Behind the Scenes'.

Another tactic is slipping self-ID into law under the radar by stealth, as happened in Ireland. This in-line with the Dentons playbook - where equal marriage was lauded and the 'self-ID' part of the bill not publicised. When laws will take away other peoples rights it is not only unnecessary to build public awareness - it is imperative to keep the public in the dark. The UK proposed conversion therapy bill yokes 'gender identity to sexual orientation' - SOGI.

He claims that the Yogyakarta Principles were adopted on the basis of a standard interdisciplinary identification methodology that considered all relevant international and national laws. Professor Robert Wintermute - International Human Rights Expert was a signatory to these and has since changed his mind as they did not consult or consider the impact on women or LGB. He explains this in a speech attended by other MPs at the LGB Alliance conference, session 2: Facts Matter, which you can see on YouTube.

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still working on this. perhaps you can contribute.

THE POINT IS. TRAS ARE SAYING THE UN SUPPORT THE CT BILL - can you help show this is a gross misrepresentation?

UN Report erases female people as a distinct group
DERFDogmaExlusionary · 27/03/2022 14:36

New telegraph article today: Controversy hits Government’s first global LGBT conference as Stonewall given ‘whip hand’ over event

"a Government Equalities Office official replied by pointing out that Stonewall was the civil society co-chair of the Equal Rights Coalition, a global partnership currently held between the UK and Argentina, which is organising the conference."

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 27/03/2022 20:49

Feminist struggle and the fight to live free from violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity are deeply intertwined, and they reinforce each other.

Hard to believe anyone could seriously make that statement in 2022. It's something we used to say (with a fair amount of wishful thinking about gay male support) back in the 1970s. Feminists have supported the LGB movement for many decades, and many lesbians are active in both movements.

But there's always been a strong thread of misogyny among gay men. And now that the trans movement sets men openly against women's rights, Madrigal-Borloz's statement is preposterous.

sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 21:35

Is there a way to feedback or complain about this?

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 27/03/2022 21:39

Sacred, for the UK we could book an appointment at our MP's surgery

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