Val McDermid ad on alibi-use of word "queer"

[CervixSampler]

This might not be the right board so I apologise for that but I've no idea where to post this. Posters here will be knowledgable though so I figured it was my best bet.

I was enjoying my guilty pleasure of an episode or two of Father Brown and a cup of tea yesterday and an advert caught my attention as I fast forwarded through as I thought I recognised Val McDermid, so I watched with interest as she's one of my favourite authors. It was perhaps linked to Pride month and Val McDermid was talking about the need for there to be more queer people on our screens.

I get confused by acceptable use of language and I thought that 'queer' was deemed offensive. My mum uses it instead of the word 'odd' to describe something strange, not people, and I always inwardly wince as in my teens and twenties it was not an acceptable word to use. Although there was the show Queer As Folk 🤷🏼‍♀️

Is it an acceptable word to use to describe those from the LGBTQ+ community? I'd have to watch again but Val McDermid definitely used all those letters but I might have missed an A out, not sure. Or is it just acceptable within that community?

I always worry about causing offence and struggle to work out what is ok and what isn't and get anxious about getting it wrong (being assessed for ASD).

She has long been keen in getting more LGBT+ writers into print. Decades of speaking about it.

If she wants to use queer as term to describe that cohort I suspect she can without much comment as it includes herself

nationalcentreforwriting.org.uk/article/val-mcdermid-introduces-her-selection-of-10-lgbtqi-writers/

I think that many people find the word offensive whilst many have embraced it so it is very confusing.

To me it means odd, unusual but also has an element of sinister and creepy or spooky. Something unsettling. I wouldn’t use it to describe gay men or lesbians because to me it seems offensive.

However there is Queer Theory which is the theory that all normative social values should be challenged and overturned because they are all inherently oppressive, and perhaps those who call themselves “queer” consider themselves proponents of queer theory. If you look it up you’ll find much more detail about but it generally seems to go along with wanting to abolish the family, the police, all institutions and authorities, the accepted meanings of words, established science etc, it is similar to some strands of anarchy and aims for the complete and unfettered freedom of the individual and individual choice. In a world where everyone is behaving that way, it seems to me that we end up with a chaotic and terrifying “might is right” situation but perhaps I misunderstand something about the theory or human nature or both…

I haven't read Val McDermid having been warned about the sickening levels of violence in her books.

"Queer" seems to have been fully integrated and accepted in the LGBTQI community. It’s up to them- It’s not a word I would use.

Val McDermid btw signed the counter response to the letter by authors supporting JK Rowling.

"Queer" seems to have been fully integrated and accepted in the LGBTQI community. It’s up to them- It’s not a word I would use.

Acceptable to some, loathed by others as a term that doesn't apply to them when they self-describe their sexual orientation as lesbian, gay, bisexual and don't seek to engage in queer theory or gender ideology.

That is disappointing about Val McDermid signing the letter against Joanne Rowling.

I also avoid graphic violence in books. So I haven’t read them either.

As you say if some people want to call themselves queer that’s up to them. I don’t think I will use it to describe people because unless you’ve been told that it is a preferred term then it is possible to cause serious offence.

I like Val Mcdermid. She seems a good sort. Can't stand Rowling. Such a busy body always wanting her twopennyworth. Thinking what she says is more important than anybody else. Don't get that with Val McDermid

@Viviennemary

I like Val Mcdermid. She seems a good sort. Can't stand Rowling. Such a busy body always wanting her twopennyworth. Thinking what she says is more important than anybody else. Don't get that with Val McDermid

But Joanne speaks so highly of you!

The Q in LGBTQ stands for queer. I don't like the term personally or the underlying theory but if people want to describe themselves that way I suppose they can. I wouldn't in case it's offensive and also because it's a word with negative connotations in its original meaning.

Disappointed that she signed against JKR. She always sounds more switched on that that would suggest. She spoke about resisting surgery and chemical intervention in kids on Question Time a while ago.

I can't grab a link but one 2005 Amazon review if The Mermaids Singing was scathing, it's a one star review by someone called Ellen. Maybe McDermid is trying to do better?

The use of 'queer' as hate speech has not gone away - it was daubed outside a friend's house recently, and the way it has been supposedly reclaimed by the younger generation does rather smack of a 'luxury belief', students, many not even same-sex-attracted, using the word to cover pretty well anything not vanilla, in a way that does feel rather like cultural appropriation. I am seeing some push back against it in social media, and not just from older people. If a word is wanted to cover the entire spectrum of not-heterosexual experience (which in my experience isn't a clear cut boundary anyway!), maybe a new one should be created that doesn't carry for many the same sort of hate-speech cultural baggage as the n, p or y words, or indeed carry the association with mental health issues which opens up a whole new chapter of debate.

@ BrownTableMat

It was always an insult - in my books alongside N, P... you know the ones. Particularly when it’s a boring straight kid who dyes their hair blue and affects drag queens and claim ‘but I’m q!!!’ (Or that dreadful woman out of The Good Place)

I like Val McDermid as a lesbian in the public eye who has as PP said long called for greater LGBT+ representation in books. I'm not much interested in her books as they are a bit too gruesome for me, but I've often seen her commenting on books I do like. Basically I'm glad she's there, and I'm comfortable enough with plurality of opinion that I don't mind her signing the letter against JKR although personally I agreed with Rowling.

I don't generally use the term 'queer' to describe myself as 'lesbian' fits better, and 99% of the time I want to use a broader term actually 'lesbian and gay' does the job. I'm wary of describing other people as queer as I do personally know a number of people for whom it is an irredeemable slur.

I think it's regrettable that we've somehow taught straight people that queer is currently the accepted, preferred, inoffensive option. When I hear straight people using it (as a descriptor of people rather than theory/specific associated politics) I do recognise they're meaning well but I dont really like it and I hope it goes out of fashion soon.

I'd prefer straight people to say LGBT, and (I appreciate this is harder to navigate) I really appreciate it when people recognise that being gay/lesbian and being LGBT+ is not necessarily interchangeable. For example, it's OK to talk about HIV in the 1980s and 1990s as a predominantly gay experience rather than something affecting "the LGBT community".

Ah yes, our Val who actually wrote an entire book about a transwoman serial killer. Did I miss the death and 'suck my girl dick' threats about that one?

"Queer" seems to have been fully integrated and accepted in the LGBTQI community.

It really hasn't. There are lots of gay people tweeting of their experiences of the word queer and why they will never accept it to describe themselves.

E.g. twitter.com/duncanhenry78/status/1408561335227592704?s=21

It's a bit of a conundrum really. Who does offence lie with -the offender or offendee. Queer was definately insulting/disparaging presumably because it was used this way. Can people really neutralise / reclaim the word if some people are still using it to denigrate? Can it only be used by the people who embrace it as their own description and what does it mean in the context of lbgt, is Queer a distinct identity or not?

This is interesting, thank you. I didn't know she'd signed the letter against JKR. Her books are now hidden behind my Harry Potter collection. Which one is the TW serial killer?

@CervixSampler
It’s the Mermaids Singing
It’s pretty gruesome but I enjoyed it 😂
I’ve always liked her books

Queer" seems to have been fully integrated and accepted in the LGBTQI community

Another dissenter here. Many lesbian and gay people still see it as a slur. It also encompasses far more than LGB people so shouldn't be mistaken as a synonym.

Only really by younger people who weren’t having it screamed at them as they had their head stamped on, or older knew who wanna be in the gang. Or straight people who think it means ‘kooky’.

And to be fair it was written in 1995
I think there is no way this book would be published today
I can just imagine the complete & total meltdown on SM if it was published now 😂😂😂

[quote noblegiraffe]"Queer" seems to have been fully integrated and accepted in the LGBTQI community.

It really hasn't. There are lots of gay people tweeting of their experiences of the word queer and why they will never accept it to describe themselves.

E.g. twitter.com/duncanhenry78/status/1408561335227592704?s=21[/quote]
The LGB community hasn't accepted it at all.

But the LGBTQI+ community seem to like it just fine.

Wonder why?

I'm fortunate enough never to have suffered the same level of abuse as Simon Fanshawe, but this piece very much resonated with me.

lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/03/simon-fanshawe-as-i-was-kicked-he-shouted-fucking-qr-i-still-wont-write-the-q-word-in-full/

I wouldn't use it, even if they self-described as queer. I think it's one of those words that is only acceptable for people to use if individuals in that community want to use it, like the n or the p word.

Is there a difference between the US and UK history of the word? The impression I get is that their mainstream derogatory word is/was 'f*ggot' (asterisk because I don't know if that's allowed here). Does it have the sort of violence/attack-linked usage there that it has here, and has that distinction been ignored with the import of US campus culture?