Name of this section

[GreenWhiteViolet]

I'm curious. Does anyone here actually like/agree with the new name, 'Sex & gender debate'? I'm interested to see the general consensus and how much support there is here for the name MNHQ have chosen.

Personally, I'd prefer 'Women's Sex-Based Rights' because I come here to post about those, not to have debates about sex and gender. I can't really see how one could have those particular debates here without running afoul of the special language rules, anyway.

If you do like the new name, could you say why? And if not, can you improve on my suggestion?

I was somewhat perplexed when I typed 'Fe' in the topic search, found 'feminist chat', clicked on it and bang, straight to this 'sex/ gender' topic...

🤔

Unless one believes that there is any other type of woman than one who is a woman based on her sex, we don't need the 'sex-based' bit!

I hate it, I’m interested in women’s rights. I’d like to never have to hear or say anything about gender ideology again but i also want women to retain the rights wedge managed to acquire so unfortunately thats not an option

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

The split is really annoying me. I can't remember what threads are there and keep flicking between the two. It's meaning I am spending twice as much time 'checking' for new threads. And I already spend way too much time on mn as it is. Can I request everyone just posts here for ease anyway, since all threads will concern sex anyway.

Yep. Super annoying flicking back and forth. Forget where stuff is. Still trying to understand the 'rationale' for it all.

Gender and Feminism would be an entirely clear and appropriate name for a board dealing with the relationship between gender and Feminism.

I've just started going through threads I've started which have been moved here. I can't work out why some of them have - plain feminist issues. Of course sex is relevant to them eg VAGW .... but if this is meant to be the 'serious feminism board' then why on Earth doesn't it have the word feminism in the title?

Still trying to understand the 'rationale' for it all.

Judging from threads I've started which have moved here, there isn't one.

Hate everything about how this has been done. I think MNHQ should be ashamed tbh.

I tend to lurk (and learn), and have a keen interest in my sex based rights. I'm not too fussed about gender as I don't have one. I feel displaced, which may have been the intention.

Sex and Gender Debate is a bland name to appease the haters of FWR.

Nothing about women/feminism, and instead a reference to "gender" which is the thing the majority of us don't believe in and/or want to be rid of as a concept. Transferring the old name ("Feminist Chat"), which used to be this board, to the other one, which is just confusing. Plus changing it without consultation or even reasonable warning/explanation. Not impressed.

Just reading the thread in Feminist chat about rough sex and we've been told ,among other things, told that men are more assertive than women. Some great sexism on that thread for feMENism.

The name now includes Feminism

Has it just changed? Looks like now both sections have Feminism in front of the title -
Feminism: Sex and Gender Debate
Feminism: Chat

Yes Justine commented this morning about changing it

Good! Don’t think we need to include the word gender though.

Not perfect, but a definite improvement.

Having Feminism: Chat and Feminism: Sex and Gender Debate still ignores the elephant in the room, which is what to do with those pesky threads about trans ideology and news that involves trans persons.

I was just reading the Scarleteen Trans Summer School thread, which is really about safeguarding and misogyny. It has nothing at all to do with a “debate” on sex and gender, but it seems that anything that contains references to trans people or trans ideology has to live in the Sex & Gender section (to protect those whose desire to contribute and discuss and post about other feminist issues is apparently not sincere or robust enough to survive co-existing on the same page of topics).

It is such a mistake to reduce all of feminism to these two topics. Not fit for purpose at all.

I really don't like the split board AT ALL and am finding it confusing and time-consuming to navigate, as if they have deliberately added a layer of complication to accessing discussion which I find infuriating. Most sites strive to make user interaction as easy as possible, so it seems like another tactic to obstruct women talking. But, I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually and, as someone who's been here since 2003, I like to believe that MN have some good reason for doing this, the benefits (to us users) of which will become clear in time.

However, the title is a different thing altogether. One of the things that is really clear and pretty much consensual here is that the VAST majority of FWR users utterly reject the concept of gender, so to put it in the title of the board we have been 'coercively assigned' feels like trolling. WanderinWomb has already perfectly expressed how I feel upthread. Sticking 'debate' on the end changes this from a place where women support women and can talk amongst themselves, to a sort of public arena where randomers can rock up to poke sticks through the bars of the monkey cage.

I doubt I'll give up MN over this, as I've been here for 18 years and it's part of my daily online life, but I'll probably scroll and post far less as it's too confusing to navigate. Plus, I'm already finding the way the posts are classified is annoyingly unclear (and in itself feels goady.)

‘Cool Girls’ and ‘Harridans’ would suffice. It’s what they mean, after all.

Meanwhile, Justine has posted on the other thread. Debate is staying, apparently.

It really does remind me of the drive by MRAs we get who pose a misogynist statement and end it with a demand to 'Discuss.' Hope we're all primed and ready for a day of 'debate' - no slacking with idle conversation or observations about things that affect us as women. No more posting when we feel bruised and weary and just want support from other women who get it.

I want to be able to go back and forwards between the two feminism boards, in one easy step! It’s infuriating having to keep going back to “Talk”.

@WinterTrees

Meanwhile, Justine has posted on the other thread. Debate is staying, apparently.

It really does remind me of the drive by MRAs we get who pose a misogynist statement and end it with a demand to 'Discuss.' Hope we're all primed and ready for a day of 'debate' - no slacking with idle conversation or observations about things that affect us as women. No more posting when we feel bruised and weary and just want support from other women who get it.

Presumably that can go on the other board then? If it’s not debate about sex and gender, just a primal scream. Or indeed a Feminist subject where sex and constructed gender considerations are pertinent but not the core point?

@WinterTrees

Meanwhile, Justine has posted on the other thread. Debate is staying, apparently.

It really does remind me of the drive by MRAs we get who pose a misogynist statement and end it with a demand to 'Discuss.' Hope we're all primed and ready for a day of 'debate' - no slacking with idle conversation or observations about things that affect us as women. No more posting when we feel bruised and weary and just want support from other women who get it.

If debate is staying, then free speech needs to be paramount, because without the freedom to speak freely, "debate" doesn't exist. Therefore, any constraints on language need to be removed immediately. This needs to be the board that the mods leave alone.

Sex and Gender Debate is a bland name to appease the haters of FWR.

I’m not sure about that as Stonewall and all the other usual suspects, hate the fact we are even having a “debate”. Freddy McConnell on Times radio on Saturday, spoke for around 5 minutes that there is in fact “no debate” .

So in some ways I think MNHQ are pissing both “sides” off, which is quite an usual way for a business to operate.