How to get through to 8 year old

[CallMeNutribullet]

Last night my 8 year old DD broke down and told me she wanted to be a boy.

She's always been fairly gender conforming but recently has said she's not a big fan of school skirts and dresses because she finds trousers more comfortable. She also asked for a couple of items of clothing from the "boys" section (which of course is fine). I've always told her there's no such thing as boys clothes/toys but probably not done enough to fight the onslaught of pink.

She's recently started puberty and I think isn't too keen on her changing body. She also has very fixed ideas about gender I'm struggling to tackle. She said she wants to be a boy because they get to do more "fun" stuff like learning to box and football. She doesn't like getting the tangles brushed from her long hair and enjoys gaming.

I've enrolled her in a boxing class and she'd like her hair bobbed so booked an appointment for that. I've told her she will always be a girl but there's nothing she can't do and if people in school tell her otherwise she should tell them there's no such thing as boys/girls stuff.

Does anyone recommend anything else? I'm really worried she'll get caught up in gender ideology as a way to "fix" the unfairness of these bullshit sexist stereotypes. Are there any good books about GNC girls aimed at her age?

It sounds like you're on the right track.

I don't know about books specifically 'for' GNC girls, but the Arthur Ransome books (starting with Swallows and Amazons) have girls who do all the same adventures as the boys.

Thank you - yeah those would work just as well. There's some difficulties with her dad right now, he was abusive towards me and there's an active court case due to his harassment of me. Of course he's dripping rubbish in her ear about how i'm trying to get him put in jail and how worried his mum is about it that she's not eating.

She's asked me if he wished she was a boy when I was pregnant and i've said no of course not and that we were both just happy she was healthy. I' wondering if she wishes she was more like him because she wants to keep him happy.

Similar here.
As well as the stuff you're already doing I reinforce messages about the good things about being female. e.g. we looked up the strongest muscle in the human body (it's the jaw) but on the list of top 5 is the uterus.
Mine do gymnastics so they have a good connection with their bodies and I repeat messages about how amazing our bodies are and how we look after them like eating well, reducing sugar, avoiding caffeine, not taking medicine we don't need, wearing well fitting shoes.
Also remind daughter that had she been a boy she would probably be just as unhappy with the expectations of her sex.
Limit online access and be very aware of what they are consuming online. Lots of messages about the unreality of others' lives online. Messages about not believing what someone presents online - it's only a snapshot and doesn't present the reality.
Point out everyday sexism.
So far daughter is showing signs of possible feminism so all good.
I think it probably helps that I also have short hair/undercut, don't wear makeup, always in trousers, always flat shoes, often don't shave. Lead by example.

With football, does she realise I the Woman's World Cup in the UK next year?
There are usually Girls teams around too.

I've had some good support from school around issues connected with my daughter's dad leaving. My daughter gets a one to one session with the mental health lead every week. They work on self esteem and it's a safe place she can vent. I wasn't sure what they could offer when I approached them but I've been impressed.

I would focus upon showing her that girls and women can do exactly what boys and men can do, the boxing is a good shout but could you get involved as well? Can you do any activities with her that she might think were 'male' activities? E.g. camping, sports, join in with her gaming etc.

Maybe take her to events that feature female athletes, if she's into team sports then book tickets for women's matches to go to together. Watch inspirational films about women who worked in high-flying careers (think astronauts, scientists etc.) A lot of museums tend to have events/displays that focus specifically upon women's contributions these days-take her to those.

Basically, I would focus upon showing her all the amazing achievements of women so that she can see that women can do anything that men can do. Be very natural and relaxed about doing all this though, just treat it as normal days out and activities and don't focus too much upon the message you are trying to send to her. Women's achievements need to be normalised for her, so she doesn't see them as being out of the extraordinary.

Agree it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

Can dress and act how she wants. Nothing wrong with liking things that people say are 'for boys'. Lots of sport so she is proud of her body.

Ironically she might find longer hair easier to deal with for sport unless she goes SUPER short - tight plaits seems to be the hairstyle of choice to keep hair out of eyes for sport.

Oh I love @JonahofArk advice

This org seems good:

www.youbeyou.co.uk/

Some good resource suggestions for parents

I would tell her about women like Nicola Adams and Alex Scott to show her that not only can she do boxing and play football but can also be very successful at it.

Sounds like you’re doing the right things already. DS is 8 and like you have tried to do the ‘there’s no such thing as boys/girls toys’ etc but it’s so pervasive isn’t it? DS will say ‘that’s for girls’ about different things. It’s ironic because I’m the main bread winner, have a professional career etc and am definitely not ‘girly’.
I recently bought a book called “Folk tales for Bold girls” for a friend’s daughter who is also struggling with what society expects her to be interested in. It’s got folk tales from different parts of the world in it and the stories are very positive.

Thanks all this is great advice

Boxing sounds like a great start. Show her she can do whatever she wants.
And yy trousers/shorts for school, much more practical, DD loves it.
Is a bob what she actually wants or would she rather have really short hair? I guess you can do it in stages, if she'd still prefer it shorter it's easily cut.

I feel quite angry for her at the sexism. All kids I know like gaming, and girls football is hardly rare. Nobody should be telling her she has to be a boy to want these things.

Is there a girls football team around? Maybe counterintuitive but actually doing it with just girls might help show her it's in no way a "boy" activity, and she might find some less stereotype bound friends.

Re. Books about GNC girls:

Amber Brown en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Brown

The Magic Finger, Matilda - Roald Dahl

The Ramona Quimby series by Beverly Cleary

I LOVED the Famous Five when I was your daughter’s age. George (Georgina) was my heroine. However, her severe case of “not like the other girls” also infected me for a while… Enid Blyton wrote plenty of other adventure stories (Secret Seven, the Adventure Series, the Mystery Series), all with mixed groups of kids. Looking back, there are other problems with her books (the villains are quite often “swarthy” or “foreigners”…) but I don’t know if that might have only been her earlier stuff. The Adventure Series definitely had a more “modern” feel than the Famous Five.

I'm thinking out loud here but has your DD read the Famous Five books? I'm trying to think of an alternative as there is racism (of its time), but I suggest it as the character George wanted to be a boy but was already better than the boys at some activities like swimming and rowing. She was fiesty and fiercely independent and an outsider as an only child and had an extended family with her cousins (Anne being stereotypically girly, making the sandwiches and tidying up their tent/cave/cabin, which showed girls can be different, there is not one way to be a girl.)

(Disclaimer: the parents in Enid Blyton books were largely neglectful and bad examples for children IMO.)

With her interest in sport and the Olympics coming up it seems a good opportunity to look for examples. The boxing classes are an excellent idea, it's a really good way to build confidence, be fit and healthy and strong and and teach discipline. I also agree with the PP advice. You sound like you're doing all the right things. Really sad for your DD that she has started puberty aged 8, it's so crap at any age but 8? I do feel for her.

I hope you're ok and good luck with the court case.

Show her Stacey Copeland's TED talk, about being a girl and wanting to play football and box. She's amazing.

She does want a bob as she said she'd prefer hair like mine although I think it's probably because she still wants to conform to an extent. I've ordered some books from Amazon with strong, adventurous girls as the leads - there aren't nearly enough! And we're going to the gym tonight (kids have sports sessions while adults use the facilities)

I also feel angry on her behalf. It's such sexist bollocks

Is there some way you can have a quiet word with her teacher - could she be being bullied in some way, that's bringing this out now (although obviously I know puberty is enough!)

Can you engineer some non-threatening time alone with her? My DSes have a habit, if there's something on their mind, of waiting for the other to go to sleep, then coming down for an hour of snuggle/talk to mum time - if you have more than one child it's hard as a single parent for them to get one on one time otherwise.

Regarding football, is there not a school club or a local team she could join? I believe that teams tend to be mixed sex up to the age of 11 although it tends to be just one girl amongst many boys.

Sounds like she has associated being a boy with fun, so it might be a good idea to get her enrolled into girl centric activities that are fun. For my neice just enrolling her into Girl Guides and various girl centred athletic and sports clubs (including climbing) got her back on track.

I'd also be encouraging friendships/play dates with friends who are boys if that's who your daughter prefers to spend time with so she knows she can be a girl but hang out with the boys and do everything they do, and maybe do it better!

Lots of great advice here that I'd echo.

Karate and other martial arts often have a slightly higher ratio of girls I've found (still more boys, but plenty of girls too) so might be worth checking out.

Also, at 8, football and other sports will start segregating and having girls teams, which will give her opportunity to meet other girls who also like sports. I'd be actively looking for a girls football group or similar.

And definitely, start following and sporting women's sport. I believe the English Women's Cricket team are pretty impressive? Hockey is one that is very widely played by women and very competitive globally I think?

It is such sexist bollocks you’re right and a classic example of the damage that decades of gender stereotyping has led to.

Kids have been taught that girls and boys are groups that are so different in personality that if one identifies with traits of the other they think they gave to jump ship.

I think you're going about this in a good way. It's possible to do all the things she wants to do and be female.
My DD has short hair and boxes. As do lots of girls at the boxing gym she attends.
Definitely get her into female centric clubs and sports.
Puberty sucks and 8 is pretty young to be dealing with this. My DD now uses period pants when menstruating which were a game changer. No rustling, no bulkiness of pads and much less visible blood. Easy to manage. I would recommend them.

@Triffid1

Lots of great advice here that I'd echo.

Karate and other martial arts often have a slightly higher ratio of girls I've found (still more boys, but plenty of girls too) so might be worth checking out.

Also, at 8, football and other sports will start segregating and having girls teams, which will give her opportunity to meet other girls who also like sports. I'd be actively looking for a girls football group or similar.

And definitely, start following and sporting women's sport. I believe the English Women's Cricket team are pretty impressive? Hockey is one that is very widely played by women and very competitive globally I think?

Agree with this about martial arts. My daughter (7) started Kuk Sool Won in September, the class she started in was mostly boys but when she moved up to the next age group on turning 7 the classes are more or less 50/50 girls and boys. Her teacher is a woman (which I think helps enormously in getting girls interested in sports) who is a multiple national champion.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing in letting her cut her hair how she wants it and by all means let her wear whatever clothes she chooses and is comfortable in - I think most of us went through a phase of wanting to wear baggy, androgenous clothing to hide out changing bodies during puberty.

Be supportive and understanding of her feelings but don't refer to her by different names or pronouns and keep reinforcing the message that there is no such thing as "girl things" or "boy things".

I'd also think about a chat with her teacher to make sure there is no attempt at positive affirmation should your daughter express these thoughts at school.