Toilets in Glasgow pub (Mono)

[Undersnatch]

Went here last night for the first time since covid and the toilets are now signed ‘gender neutral with urinals’ and ‘gender neutral with enclosed cubicles’. I chose the latter, someone already in, and felt totally vulnerable and uncomfortable, waited in loo before I heard them leave before I came out, felt a little ridiculous but the anxiety was there. Is this really what anyone wants? Unisex toilet provision? Surely when people are pissed they will do what they like, opposite sex couples go to loo together etc, as well as the (presumably) intended provision for trans people. Afterwards DH agreed he didn’t like the feeling that a woman could come in while he was exposed either.

Well they aren't gender neutral, are they? They now have Men (because few women will go in to a loo with urinals) and Mixed Sex.

Women, as per bloody usual, lose out.

Why not make them Mixed Sex (with urinals) and Women - that's the obvious solution, and would also help with the inevitable queues. But I suppose that's a really stupid question.

Thanks for the heads-up. I used to really like Mono, but I won't be going there again.

Mono regular here, I couldn't care less about gender neutral or not - their loos are so manky that I hang on until I get home.

Urgh

So men have the mens and men have the womens and women have no where.

So progressive

@Whatwouldscullydo

Urgh

So men have the mens and men have the womens and women have no where.

So progressive

Yes it felt like that. They seemed a bit less manky, johnd, than I remember, but I could handle manky more than feeling like any man can walk in when they like, and that I’d be assumed a bigot to have a problem with it

It sounds like sex discrimination to me - don't know whether it's direct or indirect, but they have chosen to provide loos in a way that disadvantages woken, because in practice they won't use the urinals, but men will use both.

Presumably the toilet with urinals will also have at least one cubicle in as well? It would be very unusual for them not to.

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.

You'll be fine in a gender neutral loo. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Same at CCA

@Keepitonthedownlow

Same at CCA

Oh FFS. I wish there wasn't such a cross over between veganism and the blue-hair brigade.

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.

It's not just about safety. It's about privacy and dignity too. It's about not excluding people who for whatever reason need single sex spaces to feel comfortable doing things like changing a tampon.

Why aren't others told their anxiety about using single sex facilities fir their birth sex is irrational?

@Orf1abc

Presumably the toilet with urinals will also have at least one cubicle in as well? It would be very unusual for them not to.

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.

You'll be fine in a gender neutral loo. Don't sweat the small stuff.

It seems pointless for this to be posted over and over again.

Men and women state quite clearly they don't like it.

Gold standard research finds that mixed sex toilets and changing rooms means more violent acts upon women.

It's not good enough just to change a sign or two. The cubicles need to be redesigned to meet the law.

Time and time again ordinary cubicles are used to photograph or film women.

That 'tiniest minority' is a straw man. As we, GC women, keep on saying, it's not transpeople we are talking about. It's your common or garden male.

The kind of man who takes any opportunity to act upon his desire for sexual gratification.

Ordinary, every day men who get a bit drunk and want to have 'a laugh'.

The outcome is the same. A woman whose safety and dignity are ignored because...

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.

If someone wants to do you harm, they’ll use whatever opportunity they can. What you’re saying is let’s roll over and make it easier for them to get access because everyone is too afraid to challenge them. Let’s give them easy access so they can put in spy cams without being challenged as to why they are there.

I wish it was the tiniest minority committing these crimes, but given the number of people who are raped, sexually assaulted or harassed every year there’s more than a few perpetrators.

I don’t feel like shrugging and saying “rapists are going to rape, what can you do?”

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine, sadly there are misogynists who use teenage girls' compassion towards animals as a tool to control them. I had a schoolfriend drawn by a very controlling, older boyfriend into what was effectively an animal rights version of a religious-like cult group away from family and friends. Thinking back, those 'I'd rather go naked than wear fur', or naked celebs against fishing, or - recently and horrifically - vegan activist men actually branding young women lying on the ground in bikinis in a supposed animal rights demo. These are all animal welfare causes I support, but again and again they are being abused to push young women into doing the sort of things some men get their kicks from.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Why aren't others told their anxiety about using single sex facilities fir their birth sex is irrational?

Good point. I'd rather not use a unisex toilet if I could avoid it and I'm a bloke. No doubt an irrational one. Sigh.

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door

Not true all the time. There are crimes which are opportunistic. Sure some men will go into a space they’ll stand out in but not all are so emboldened.

@Orf1abc I agree, and I think it's a pretty logical move given Mono's customers. I know a couple of trans men who go to Mono quite often and this would be a really positive step for them.

Ordinary, every day men who get a bit drunk and want to have 'a laugh'. Not really Mono's average customers. Your average venue on Sauchiehall Street, yes, I'd agree with you.

Your anxiety is irrational. If someone wants to do you harm, they'll do so whatever label is on the door. That is only the tiniest minority of people.You'll be fine in a gender neutral loo. Don't sweat the small stuff.

No just ignore all the crime statistics. Forget about the sex discrimination. Forget that women had to fight to get toilets in the first place. Be kind ! Let the nice men do what they want. Play your part in their fetishes and don't be a spoilsport.
Yeah don't sweat the small stuff.
Aye right!

I know a couple of trans men who go to Mono quite often and this would be a really positive step for them

But why don't those transmen deserve the sake level of safguarding as everyone else?

We know female are more at risk in mixed sex spaces. We shouldn't be so casual about putting anyone born female at risk like that.

@johndwyershair @Orf1abc

why do some people's feelings about toilets matter but not others?

Women get harrassed by men CONSTANTLY. They want to be able to go and pee in peace and many women don't feel comfortable doing that in mixed sex toilets.

This is women saying NO I DO NOT LIKE THAT.

Ask yourself why you don't respect women who are saying this?

I've never been so wouldn't know 😁

But it sounds like fun!!

And now I feel so very old.

"Don't sweat the small stuff". ?!?!?!?
This is not a "small stuff" issue.

I wouldn't like it either OP I would feel on edge if I had to go into a toilet with a drunk bloke.
Most women would apart from people " who don't sweat the small stuff"🤔

You should get some signs or stickers MEN and WOMEN and superglue them on the doors. Do it again and again and again. Make it a problem for the idiots who think it's ok.

I encountered the same last night in a fancy bar in London. The loos had clearly recently been designated “unisex” as the signs were just laminated A4 sheets. I pushed open the door to find 2 urinals and immediately walked out to try to find a loo I could actually use.

I was nervous about complaining but when I told friends I was with they immediately went to the waiter and complained. The waiter tried to say it was fine because you can lock the main door in the urinal room and there is also a cubicle in there.

We pointed out that most men wouldn’t think to lock the main door whilst peeing and women will end up walking in on them. Also, all that will happen is men will try the first door they see and then pee in a toilet instead of using the urinal - meaning less toilets for women!

He said he’d pass it onto management.

I've been in bogs where the old type room with cubicles has been made unisex.

The man who was in there when I came out of the first was apologetic.
The one when I came out the second gave off a vibe that he was not happy i was there.

In general men don't like this either.

The other thing is the toilets are often very gappy as designed for single sex.

I find the argument that if s bloke wants to he'll attack you anyway, crass in the extreme.

Women and girls saying it reduces safety so concerns them, getting the response well you're vulnerable all the time so what's the problem. Is a shit reaction. It really is.