"Trans widows’ fear being trapped in loveless marriages if gender law changes" in today's Telegraph

[TinselAngel]

It's been a long slog but trans widows have finally made it into the broadsheets! Pleased to have worked with Ewan Somerville on this article, which is a pretty good summary:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/20/trans-widows-fear-trapped-loveless-marriages-gender-law-changes/

@TinselAngel

It's been a long slog but trans widows have finally made it into the broadsheets! Pleased to have worked with Ewan Somerville on this article, which is a pretty good summary:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/20/trans-widows-fear-trapped-loveless-marriages-gender-law-changes/

Name changed

That's brilliant Tinsel!

Well done Tinsel and co.

Thank you for the archive link, so I could read the article.
Now I understand what the "spousal veto" is about - I knew that people didn't need their spouse's permission to decide to ID as the other sex, but I didn't realise it was a condition of getting their GRC that their spouse had to agree to it.

Makes sense now!

However, I think it's an utter nonsense to try and change this. If women don't want to remain married to a TW after their ID change, then they shouldn't be made to - nor should they be made to undergo a full divorce hearing. As for the Stonewall bollox about "coercive control" - ha! The only coercive control is forcing heterosexual women who married a man to stay in a relationship where that man identifies as a TW! OR equally, forcing a lesbian to stay in a marriage where the other half now identifies as a TM!
I wonder how many gay men this happens to? As in, one half of a gay couple decides to transition, leaving the other gay man now married to a TW? This doesn't seem to happen very often at all...

Hopefully the law won't change and women (because it mostly is women, after all) won't get pushed into this reprehensible position.

I wouldn't have thought the sexual orientation is necessarily the crucial point here. A bi or 'pan' partner should also be free to leave the marriage if their spouse, by getting a GRC, is wanting to legally declare themselves to be a fundamentally different person from who they thought they'd married.

I don’t understand why it’s assumed by Labour and libdems thst the person who didn’t marry under false pretences/treat their partner as a mere stepping stone on their way to self actualisation is assumed to be most likely to exercise coercive control.

Issues around married men becoming women has been know about for decades. In terms of how the transition itself can become a form of abuse within the marriage. (I found a random conference paper on it from the 80s or 90s.)

I do wonder if that's another reason why it came into being.

@WarriorN

Issues around married men becoming women has been know about for decades. In terms of how the transition itself can become a form of abuse within the marriage. (I found a random conference paper on it from the 80s or 90s.)

I do wonder if that's another reason why it came into being.

The Another Kind of Life Barbican exhibition had exhibits that were a fascinating social history of Casa Susanna. This article is interesting but what sticks with me from the exhibits was the undisguised contempt for 'wives who just couldn't understand' in newsletters for this association:

More than 100 images from the retreat, called Casa Susanna, will go on display, part of a wider exhibition at the Barbican art gallery in London exploring the relationship between photographers and alternative communities.

“Casa Susanna was a place of refuge where they could be utterly free and away from prying eyes,” said the curator, Alona Pardo. “These people in their everyday lives could not walk around New York City as cross-dressers. This was a place where they had fun.”

www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/may/17/cross-dressing-men-celebrated-barbican-uk-london-photography-exhibition-casa-susanna

Well done Tinsel, great to see this getting some mainstream press. Thanks for the archive link.

Hope you enjoyed your piss up!

Embarrassing, Tut tut, those fun busting wives eh?

They were constantly taking photographs of each other as an affirmation of who they were.

Not much has changed there then.

(Presumably) as a result of this article being published I've had my first death threats.

that’s vile, tinsel, I’m so sorry.

those usernames are disgusting 🤢

Truly awful Tinsel

Both sides though, eh?

I’ve seen some pretty unpleasant things (more so than usual) since the article on Saturday, directed at trans widows. I’m so sorry these people are too stupid to understand the connotations of the term trans widows, they seem to think it’s a form of abuse of the trans person by wishing them dead. You’re nobody until you have been threatened with sexual violence so you really have come up in the world.

they seem to think it’s a form of abuse of the trans person by wishing them dead.

Which is odd, when they themselves call the name they were born with their "dead name".

I know, I thought that but it’s the same old same old. “Alright for us not for you though”. They do seem to struggle with the brain work.

christ that's awful

violent misogynists

from men I expect. I don't think random social media death threats are much of a woman thing

The other reason for the option to say ok or divorce/ annul is religion.

Plenty of branches of religions do not agree with gay marriage. I'd imagine many of these think homosexuality is wrong full stop.

The position without the option to divorce/ annul means that a person can end up married to partner who is legally the opposite sex.

Tbh the trans partner in most of those systems would have to leave anyway. I can't imagine they'd be accepting of that level of gender nonconformity.

I'm talking here about the many more closed / fundamentalist religious communities that exist. There are an awful lot in the UK.

So the trans person will have had a process of growing up, thinking, mulling it over. Hiding Vs leaving. In some situations this will mean not seeing family etc again ever. In some they are so closed that the whole idea of joining the outside world is huge and intimidating. The loss of everything you know, really.

The trans person takes that decision. What then of their spouse and any children? There will be consequences.

The one with most effect would be divorce. Annulment, not sure. Would mean any children were born out of wedlock.

In any event.. To have no choice but to be in a gay marriage would surely have worse consequences.

This is an area yet again where the wants of the transperson are being completely prioritised and with no thought to the spouse or children (that I've seen).

As part of the LGBT+ group, why are individuals and the well funded multiple charities not working to address homophobic religious groups in the UK?

I've never seen anything from a trans group or ones like stonewall saying LGBT+ people in these communities have an awful time and nowhere to turn. Providing a support network to get them out, to somewhere that will help them adapt to life outside if they need that.

The argument for removing this clause is focussed entirely on the trans person. Divorce could take time and can be expensive. Well yes. But it's like that for very very good reasons.

Even calling it the veto, like people want to split instead of say ok then they're being mean and putting a hold on the trans persons plans.

It's all totally self centred TBH.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

christ that's awful

violent misogynists

from men I expect. I don't think random social media death threats are much of a woman thing

Especially not when it's a thread of oral rape.

So sorry tinsel 💐

Ugh. tinsel. Have you reported it to Twitter? I know its pointless, but there is going to be a reckoning at some point.

Tinsel

Appalling behaviour, demonstrating very clearly exactly what the realities are that some transwidows can experience. I hope seeing this shocks more people into understanding.

Those should of course be reported to the police, since threatening in this way is illegal. I quite understand that you may not feel able, but this is criminal behaviour that the police should rush to deal with with the same enthusiasm they rush to arrest women for tying suffragette ribbons to trees.

@TinselAngel - hope it hasn't rattled you too much

@TinselAngel

(Presumably) as a result of this article being published I've had my first death threats.

That's awful, sorry you've had to experience that, Tinsel.

And people wonder why women are wary about sharing intimate spaces with people like this .