Do I, or how do I raise this with school?

[Jellycatspyjamas]

A boy in my DDs class came back after half term calling himself by a girls name and presenting as a girl at school. The class have been instructed to use her new name and female pronouns, with no further explanation as far as I can tell.

My concerns are that the child uses the girls toilets at school, is getting changed with the girls for gym and the girls have been told that she’s now a girl. I also worry about the PSE teaching that might sit around this in terms of sex and gender identity.

I’ve told my daughter to respect the name she wants to be called and to use her chosen pronouns but the it’s not possible to change sex.

I have a good relationship with the head teacher, who is usually pretty level headed, but I have concerns. Do I raise it with the head just now or address issues if and when they arise?

Surely the easiest way would be for the transgender/transsexual child to be allowed to change separately and to have a designated toilet while they are 'in between' so to speak. That way the other girls and boys are still able to feel comfortable in their segregated groups.
This would not be to discriminate against them but to preserve their dignity.
Each time they get changed they are exposing themselves as being physically different to the others. I feel it would be easier for them to be accepted as their chosen gender. If the other girls only ever saw this child dressing and looking like a girl it would be much easier for them to accept them as a girl without a constant reminder for all of them that they were not born as a boy.

Sorry I meant 'born as a boy' NOT 'not born as a boy'

Each time they get changed they are exposing themselves as being physically different to the others.

Only because they are choosing to change with children of the opposite sex. If physical differences are a problem, then surely changing with the boys would be more appropriate?

@DysmalRadius

Each time they get changed they are exposing themselves as being physically different to the others.

Only because they are choosing to change with children of the opposite sex. If physical differences are a problem, then surely changing with the boys would be more appropriate?

I can see your point but if they feel like a girl inside they would also feel embarrassed by getting changed in front of what they consider 'the opposite sex' Especially if they decide to wear female knickers or a bralet etc.

Whatever they feel inside is by definition the feeling of a male, though? Whatever they feel like, is what males can feel like. What specifically do you think it is that this child feels that only female people can feel?

I don't think that stereotyping which clothes which sexes can wear is helpful either. Both sexes should be able to wear what they like.

I can see your point but if they feel like a girl inside they would also feel embarrassed by getting changed in front of what they consider 'the opposite sex'

Yet this was fine when an entire class of girls was expected to change in front of someone they considered the opposite sex.

I agree with you that a third space might resolve the issue in this particular case, but the circular logic does highlight the absurdity of the situation.

Also, I was embarrassed getting changed in front of any members of any sex at that age - where is the line drawn when accommodating a child's feelings versus the practicality of providing shared changing facilities? Could any child that would prefer to change alone be offered separate facilities?

Hopefully the head teacher has a clear plan in place to support all pupils.

If the other girls only ever saw this child dressing and looking like a girl it would be much easier for them to accept them as a girl without a constant reminder for all of them that they were born as a boy.

Why on earth should the girls accept a male child as a girl? It would be gaslighting of the most dangerous sort, setting the girls up for a lifetime of being unable to recognise hazardous situations or to stand up for themselves when lied to.

So, I had a really good conversation with the school head, who totally understood my concerns. The school term ends this week and arrangements have been put in place for next year to provide a third space for children to change and separate toilets for this child to access. The plan had been for these to be in place by half term but Covid stopped the necessary work so the child has been using the girls toilets, but has been using them outside of usual school breaks when teachers know other children aren’t present - for the privacy of all concerned. The child can use the accessible toilet or staff toilet during break times.

There’s no intention to exclude girls from single sex spaces and no plan to force integration.

The HT has declined offers from Mermaids to do any training in the school and uses the support of the gender clinic to explain the change to children as a change in name and appearance. They haven’t talked about it in terms of transitioning or gender or sex, just that x would like to be known as y now. They didn’t say that she was a girl now, that seems to have been playground chat which teachers have deal with fairly sensitively - including comments from other kids that they’d quite like to be a girl/boy/giraffe!

So the immediate concerns are much lessened, I’ll contact the education authority and my MSP about the rest. Thanks for everyone’s support - it’s helped me find a really measured way to raise issues and to focus on the actual issues which aren’t about this child particularly, and I have lots of material for my contact with the wider authorities.

That sounds like a good result, Jelly.
Sounds like the teachers are very much on it.

@DysmalRadius

Also, I was embarrassed getting changed in front of any members of any sex at that age - where is the line drawn when accommodating a child's feelings versus the practicality of providing shared changing facilities? Could any child that would prefer to change alone be offered separate facilities?

This

That's good Jelly

Nice update. Sounds like the head is treading the line well?

She really is @YellowFish12, trying very hard to balance all of the needs of the children and using her very good relationships with parents to do it. I was pleased with how considered she’s been - she’s also in total support of me taking the wider issues to the local authority.

Two trans kids already at DD's school. Changing not an issue as they don't do that at school. Toileting facilities have been f**ked since the pandemic started as instead of single sex facilities shared by two year groups, they've given each year group one set of toilets. So Y5 get the boys' loos (used to be for Y5 and Y6 boys) and Y6 get the girls' loos (used to be for both Y5 and Y6). They are, at least, designed in such a way that each cubicle is floor-to-ceiling and contains a sink. But still not brilliant when so many are starting puberty.

@Jellycatspyjamas really good update. The head sounds like she's handling the situation really well.

Read the Maya case (yes, really). It basically limits those who are "trans" to those who meet the legal definition of gender reassignment. A 9/10 year old deciding they are different is NOT going to meet the requirements for that, and therefore you DDs rights to separate sex places matters.
It might also be worth contacting one of the many organisations that are representing women in this matter - a number of them, off the back off Maya, might be interested in taking a judicial review of this.

What a good update Jellycatspyjamas . These are such challenging issues for schools with little balanced advice around for them. It sounds as if she'll balance the needs of all pupils as well as is possible.

She’s a very good Head and I have a very good relationship with her. She’s very much on it though there’s only so far she can go in challenging the guidance.

I’ve now written to the education department, local councillors and MSPs raising concerns (thank you WritetoThem - 3 lots of targetted letters in 10 mins, very worthwhile site). I’ve also spoken to some parents, not about the child but about the guidance and they’re on the ball too.

We really can’t let this sit unchallenged - used lots of references and resources from here too, what a fantastically knowledgeable nest of vipers we are.

Well done @Jellycatspyjamas

For those posters saying 'well it doesn't really matter because we used to change together for PE at age 9/10 or wear our pants for PE' - whatever policy gets agreed for PE changing for a child who has decided they are a different gender- well that will be the same for swimming.

So the male child who has been allowed to change with the girls for PE at school will presumably be allowed to change with the girls for swimming. Usually in open plan changing rooms.
At 9/10/11 girls have started puberty. Some will have grown pubic hair, breasts, and be having periods.

Why should they have to accept a BOY in their changing room? Because that's what he will be. He CANNOT start changing his gender in any lawful way. So he is a boy.

Legally, and in reality.