Do I, or how do I raise this with school?

[Jellycatspyjamas]

A boy in my DDs class came back after half term calling himself by a girls name and presenting as a girl at school. The class have been instructed to use her new name and female pronouns, with no further explanation as far as I can tell.

My concerns are that the child uses the girls toilets at school, is getting changed with the girls for gym and the girls have been told that she’s now a girl. I also worry about the PSE teaching that might sit around this in terms of sex and gender identity.

I’ve told my daughter to respect the name she wants to be called and to use her chosen pronouns but the it’s not possible to change sex.

I have a good relationship with the head teacher, who is usually pretty level headed, but I have concerns. Do I raise it with the head just now or address issues if and when they arise?

Totally makes sense @BlackeyedSusan, thanks for explaining - that might need to be my fall back position.

Well that was quick, a response from the head teacher arranging a call for tomorrow, which I’ll be following up by email - keen to keep a paper trail on this one.

What do the other parents think?

Good luck and remember to stress that this meeting is about the policy the school has for treating transgender students and presumably also staff. It is not just about one little boy sharing a toilet but any male person identifying as a member of the opposite sex. Also not just toilets, will boys be able to share girls' sleeping accommodation ? Will male teachers, if they identify as women be allowed ,to supervise girls' changing rooms?

Someone further up the thread said "It wouldn't bother me so much that a 10 year old boy was getting changed with the girls, they're young children after all"

I've been mulling that statement over and it just doesn't make sense to me. If they're all young children and it doesn't matter, why doesn't the male bodied child just carry on using the boys changing room? Instead of insisting on being in the girls changing room?

The school should be providing a safe space for this young boy to get changed that doesn't have an impact on anyone else. That's what I'd be requesting from the school OP.

9-10 year old girls need us to be their voice. I'm sure your DD isn't the only one not comfortable with what's being forced on her. There are probably others who are doing the usual "be kind" nonsense regardless of how they feel about it.

Someone further up the thread said "It wouldn't bother me so much that a 10 year old boy was getting changed with the girls, they're young children after all"

Yes, but also, once the precedent is set and the 10-yr-old is recognised as a "girl" and allowed to use the girls' facilities, it would be very difficult or impossible to go back on this once he is older. You can't say "yes, we understand you're a girl, so off you go to the girls' showers" at 10, and then when he gets to 13 and has a deep voice/moustache/regular erections, suddenly come up with some excuse to move him out again (without of course ever being able to say that he is not "really" a girl in exactly the same way as the rest!).

So any policies made need to cater not only for the little sweet ones, but for the big hairy adolescents too. Similarly, they can't just cater for little Joe/sephine who was always very sweet and long-haired and liked dressing up as a fairy and painting - they also need to work if the massive, muscly school bully suddenly starts wanting to be called Olivia and changing with the girls. Whatever policies are made need to be able to cover every possible scenario, while remaining fair and safe both for the child involved and all the other children affected.

This might also be useful
sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Boys-and-Girls-and-the-Equality-Act-May-2021-Scotland.pdf

It might also be useful to remember that the child in question is a 10 year old girl too. Whatever your own opinions are on that matter. I’m not saying you aren’t entitled to concerns, but please remember we are not talking about an adult male ‘pretending’ to be a woman to enable his access to women’s safe spaces. (To attack them?!) this is a confused child who has no doubt been through extensive therapy to get to this point. Whatever your issues, just think about this child as a human child who is also vulnerable.

@Onehotmess

It might also be useful to remember that the child in question is a 10 year old girl too. Whatever your own opinions are on that matter. I’m not saying you aren’t entitled to concerns, but please remember we are not talking about an adult male ‘pretending’ to be a woman to enable his access to women’s safe spaces. (To attack them?!) this is a confused child who has no doubt been through extensive therapy to get to this point. Whatever your issues, just think about this child as a human child who is also vulnerable.

The child in question may be vulnerable but they are not female - they have the body of a male. The female children are also vulnerable - many will be starting to go through puberty and a male child, regardless of how they identify, is likely to make them uncomfortable. So whilst the one male child may wish to be seen as a girl and it may improve their mental health - the mental health implications for the actual girls also need to be considered.

Yes I was actually saying look at it from both sides. I only mentioned this as I couldn’t find another post where anyone felt any empathy towards the girl who is going through something which requires strength and understanding. She is a girl though, the more people tell her she’s a boy, the worse this will get.

Good luck OP. Keep bringing the subject back to women's rights, girls rights! The school should not be working from some hierarchical list of 'rights' in which those of the supposed transgender trump those of natal females.

Don't let them get away with the word 'trans'. Use 'transsexual', as obviously no child has a sexual identity. It is absurd.

Get other parents (fathers preferably) complaining too. But not as a gang, separately.

Lend the head your copy of 'irreversible damage'. Talk about Social Contagion.

Good luck

She is a girl though, the more people tell her she’s a boy, the worse this will get.

You see I absolutely don’t agree with this. Surely any counselling/therapy should be helping the child/adult come to peace with the fact that they are, in this instance, a boy. That they may feel like/believe themselves to be a girl but their life experiences regardless of transition and how much they ‘pass’ as the opposite sex will be very different to that of a girl. Telling someone they are something they’re not surely just exacerbates mental health issues.

@Onehotmess

It might also be useful to remember that the child in question is a 10 year old girl too. Whatever your own opinions are on that matter. I’m not saying you aren’t entitled to concerns, but please remember we are not talking about an adult male ‘pretending’ to be a woman to enable his access to women’s safe spaces. (To attack them?!) this is a confused child who has no doubt been through extensive therapy to get to this point. Whatever your issues, just think about this child as a human child who is also vulnerable.

The child is a ten year old male who will eventually grow into a 16 year old male. Boundaries need to be clearly established from the start.

Not if they have gender reassignment

@Iamanaubergine Thankfully no actual licensed therapist would ever repeatedly and purposefully misgender a child. The child knows she has a penis. I honestly thought the majority would be sympathetic to both OP and the other child. (It’s not about taking sides or putting your beliefs into someone else.)

@oldwomanwhoruns

Good luck OP. Keep bringing the subject back to women's rights, girls rights! The school should not be working from some hierarchical list of 'rights' in which those of the supposed transgender trump those of natal females.

Don't let them get away with the word 'trans'. Use 'transsexual', as obviously no child has a sexual identity. It is absurd.

Get other parents (fathers preferably) complaining too. But not as a gang, separately.

Lend the head your copy of 'irreversible damage'. Talk about Social Contagion.

Good luck

I think you mean transgender.

I only mentioned this as I couldn’t find another post where anyone felt any empathy towards the girl who is going through something which requires strength and understanding.

The OP only posted as an entire school is apparently required to show empathy towards a child at the expense of preserving their own dignity. Are you really asking people responding to centre this single child as well rather than the OP's child (that she actually asked about) and all the other girls in the school?

The legal term is transsexual, non?

@Onehotmess

Not if they have gender reassignment

No. If all the available drugs and surgeries are deployed then they may become a male who looks and sounds like a female, but they will still be male.

What we need to do is not redefine ‘girl’ to include males, but rather redefine ‘boy’ to include the full spectrum of males’ appearances and behaviours.

Yes, this would be difficult, but actually changing biological sex is impossible.

[quote Onehotmess]@Iamanaubergine Thankfully no actual licensed therapist would ever repeatedly and purposefully misgender a child. The child knows she has a penis. I honestly thought the majority would be sympathetic to both OP and the other child. (It’s not about taking sides or putting your beliefs into someone else.)[/quote]
I don’t mean that a therapist should deliberately misgender a client but help them come to terms with their birth sex & how transitioning may not solve all their issues which is surely helpful even if they subsequently choose to transition.
I think people are sympathetic to both parties but when a decision like this is made to put what is a male bodied child in with a group of developing female bodied children without consideration of the female children or consultation with those with parental responsibility people’s sympathy is quickly eroded. I appreciate that the transitioning child wants to be affirmed in their chosen gender but shouldn’t automatically expect to be placed with those children with whom they ‘identify’. The child cannot unilaterally expect to be suddenly treated as the opposite sex and this should be explained/discussed in any therapy.

I only mentioned this as I couldn’t find another post where anyone felt any empathy towards the girl who is going through something which requires strength and understanding

I have huge amounts of empathy and sympathy for the poor child who is going through this. His parents, the school and the TRA ‘affirmation only’ environment is setting him up for a total shitshow of an adolescence.

The kids needs therapy about accepting who you are and love not a “ok James you’re Jenny - all your problems are now solved” approach.

You can empathise with the girl without expecting the rest of the female students to be made to feel uncomfy. Telling 10 year old girls they just have to suck it up when someone decides to use their toilets/changing rooms isn’t right.

We had similar at DS school and the parents respectfully raised their concerns about their own daughters comfort and alternatives where put in place. I only have a son at the school but would have happily supported the parents of girls if needed in ensuring they had a protected space.

She is a girl though, the more people tell her she’s a boy, the worse this will get.

Male. Not possible to change sex. The word girl describes biological females, not biological males. And at age 10, a male cannot take puberty blockers or obtain a GRC to create the legal fiction of identifying as a female. Thus, as a matter of safeguarding, they should not be in spaces where girls undress.

I think you mean transgender

Transexual is the term you're looking for. Transgender is yet another appropriation, this time of the legal rights and protections for transexual people.

It might be worth contacting Baroness Nicholson for support on this one op.

It's shittest for the male child who identifies as a girl. They're being set up, while an androgynous looking child, to think they're something that it will become increasingly obvious they're not over the next few years. They're being set up to think it is fine for them as a male to impose on female single sex spaces. They're very likely being set up to think that girls who aren't okay with this (which many won't be) hate them and don't "accept them for who they are".

School have failed in their duty to promote good relations between the relevant protected characteristic groups. Girls who would normally be lovely and kind and go out of their way to remember pronouns are being pushed to the point they will have to say "no". There's no need for that.

However, it's not OP's role to advocate for the trans identifying child, as PPs have said all she can legitimately do is engage with school about how it affects her child.

Thanks everyone, all really helpful.

I have a lot of empathy for the transitioning child, regardless of my views this is still a young child who is very vulnerable. I want the school to find a way forward that supports both this child and my child (and of course other children at the school). As it stands the child is legally and biologically male, though I’m happy to support my daughter in recognising her new gender identity.

My DD is very vulnerable in her own right, with developmental delay and very complex additional support needs which means her ability to set boundaries, express concerns or not put herself in a compromising position isn’t well developed. The school has an equal duty of care to them both.

I do think I’ll be able to resolve things with the school, but am very worried about the wider implications of allowing a child to access private spaces which should be single sex. I’m also worried that guidance as it stands promotes the rights of the transitioning child over all else, doesn’t promote safeguarding or indeed seem to aim for collaborative working with parents.

I have no interest in starting a campaign against the child and will speak privately to parents about the wider issues, which I only became aware of when looking at the SG guidance, but I’d have concerns about that even if there weren’t an immediate issue to address.

It’s hard keeping the children at the centre of this, but that’s what I’m hoping to do.