GMP new chief stands up against wokeness

[CervixSampler]

GMP's new chief constable 'absolutely would not' take the knee www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gmps-new-chief-constable-absolutely-20807814

I know the article states it's about taking the knee but there's a great quote further down:

"Stephen Watson believes the level of 'woke' policing has passed a 'high water mark' of tolerance from the public, who would rather see officers catch burglars.

He said the public is 'fed up' with 'virtue-signalling police officers' and believes that the impartiality of officers could be undermined by responses to campaign groups including actions such as taking the knee or wearing their pins, badges or rainbow shoelaces."

Am I right in thinking the campaign groups he speaks of are likely to include Stonewall?

The tide is changing and quickly it seems.

I appreciate there is a lot in that article but from a FWR point of view I'm taking it as a positive and hoping that GMP improve. The same GMP who classed marital rape as "not very nice but not a crime," when I reported my exH. And that was a female detective who said that.

This was a really important statement. Officers are entitled to their private views but on duty they have to be seen to be impartial.

I think it is a really important statement too.

I felt quietly optimistic, reading what he said

I don't do Twitter but I imagine there might be some tantrums outrage about this.
It's been very sunny lately hasn't it . I do love sunshine. It's excellent for one's mental health 😎

I have mixed feelings about this. The police - as the "force" of a democratic state - should be actively pro LGBT rights and anti-racism. Equally they should not get into the politics of BLM, or into anything about LGBT rights beyond "we are here to serve everyone in society, everyone deserves respect and equality as an individual".

This obviously presents problems - to what extent is a rainbow flag an LGB equality symbol, and to what extent does it represent the current TRA insanity?

The police - as the "force" of a democratic state - should be actively pro LGBT rights
Why?

gosh this is tricky. There is such a risk of being caught in a bad backlash.

as to taking the knee I greatly admired the sportsman who began it in the US. It was his deeply felt protest and he suffered for it.

These things have an authentic moment but once they are organised and people who aren't affected join in, that moment passes. It can degrade the meaning of the original protest and oddly becomes disrespectful.

The police lost their impartiality when they were prepared to put the boot in during the miners’ strike of the 1980’s. Many of us with long memories have never forgotten nor forgiven their willingness to be Thatcher’s boot boys.

"The police - as the "force" of a democratic state - should be actively pro LGBT rights
Why?"

What are the police for, constitutionally I mean? I understand they have an overriding duty to investigate crime, but how does their community cohesion/community interaction/fostering of good relations stuff work?

I have been directly affected by this - I think - in that a police force that seemed indifferent to my plight (save for one brave female officer) contacted me a week after Sarah Everard's death to ask if I would support an application for a restraining order against the abusive man in my life. "My" officer hadn't changed but it seemed as though some new policy had been handed down (as happens in schools,etc) after Sarah's death that gave "my" officer more power.

..... so "GMP new chief stands up against wokeness" can't really be right. If the chief has the power to make these decisions, he's just made a decision to change the culture and is changing it.
If he doesn't have that power, or has a discretion, it's a bit different.

But the police chief doesn't "stand up to" anyone. Individual brave officers do - but they are standing up to their own bosses and trying to be true to their mission, surely?

@GreyhoundG1rl

The police - as the "force" of a democratic state - should be actively pro LGBT rights Why?

Because everyone should be treated equally and with respect in a democratic society.

To be clear - being pro trans rights is about not bullying trans people, instead treating them with respect in person - I am not saying that the political aspects of the insane TRA movement shoule be included in LGBT rights that the police support.

@FloppyHoldsNoTruckWithFrontedA

"The police - as the "force" of a democratic state - should be actively pro LGBT rights Why?"

What are the police for, constitutionally I mean? I understand they have an overriding duty to investigate crime, but how does their community cohesion/community interaction/fostering of good relations stuff work?

I have been directly affected by this - I think - in that a police force that seemed indifferent to my plight (save for one brave female officer) contacted me a week after Sarah Everard's death to ask if I would support an application for a restraining order against the abusive man in my life. "My" officer hadn't changed but it seemed as though some new policy had been handed down (as happens in schools,etc) after Sarah's death that gave "my" officer more power.

I don't really know, but surely part of their job - preventing and solving crime - is to dissuade hate crimes by encouraging the opposite of hate!

Because everyone should be treated equally and with respect in a democratic society.
I totally agree.

But this should be done without elevating one group above all others, which is of course the polar opposite of equality.

@JediGnot

I have mixed feelings about this. The police - as the "force" of a democratic state - should be actively pro LGBT rights and anti-racism. Equally they should not get into the politics of BLM, or into anything about LGBT rights beyond "we are here to serve everyone in society, everyone deserves respect and equality as an individual".

This obviously presents problems - to what extent is a rainbow flag an LGB equality symbol, and to what extent does it represent the current TRA insanity?

To your last point, I don’t think it matters. I don’t think that police officers (or others in the public sector) should be displaying any symbols or flags, they should be entirely impartial and apolitical. They need to be able to connect with and build relationships of trust with everyone in this country. As soon as you show support for one group or cause you automatically alienate others or at least make them wonder why their group or cause is less important than the one being visibly supported.

"I don't really know, but surely part of their job - preventing and solving crime - is to dissuade hate crimes by encouraging the opposite of hate!"

But isn't it utterly extraordinary that we don't know? It's all very well us having individual views about what the police force is and what it does but surely everyone ought to know from primary school onwards? otherwise how can we engage with this powerful force in our lives?

The police should act without fear not favour. They take an oath to act impartially. Doesn’t matter who they deal with, they should not prioritise one group or another. They are there to uphold the law. Not be actively pro anyone.

"by encouraging the opposite of hate!""

no. I think that's where we go wrong. As Orwell noted with his Ministry of Love.
police officers are not there to be our friends. Nor are doctors, nor are judges. They have roles in society.

"The police should act without fear not favour. They take an oath to act impartially."
is there any chance you could link? Sadly my abuser is one of them (hence bravery of his colleague) and I think he has used this very wording........
Apologies for derail.

Interesting comment.

”This obviously presents problems - to what extent is a rainbow flag an LGB equality symbol, and to what extent does it represent the current TRA insanity?”

The problem I have with the various Police services displaying the rainbow flag so prominently is that it’s about the only social movement they support so aggressively.

Where’s the focus on Mental Health issues, which every beat cop has daily dealings with? Or homelessness or DV (ditto)?

And that’s before the very persistent issues they have with racism - they have a VERY long way to go before anyone would accuse them of being “woke” about their attitude on that.

Nobody wants the police, or society generally, to go back to where it was considered good practice to use male officers to entrap gay men in public loos; but there has to be balance and a sense of proportion. It’s not healthy to have so much focus on one, proportionately small, section of society and it often feels a bit of a smoke and mirrors act anyway.

“Don’t look over here at all our dirty laundry - look over there at the pretty rainbow coloured car and Pride themed rank slides”

"Nobody wants the police, or society generally, to go back to where it was considered good practice to use male officers to entrap gay men in public loos;"

... so it's about atonement?

The police need to treat everyone equally, rather than seem to be pro-any specific group. Rather like health care workers - yes, treat the Muslim person really well and humanely. But you also treat the militant atheist respectfully. And the same for everyone else. As soon as you put on something like a rainbow pin, someone who is an orthodox religious person may feel alienated, as if they may be disapproved of or not be treated fairly.

That goes for all kinds of disagreements in civil society. It's possible though only if these bodies remain really neutral and are allowed to keep their private opinions private.

"Nobody wants the police, or society generally, to go back to where it was considered good practice to use male officers to entrap gay men in public loos;"

... so it's about atonement?

Really not sure how you got that from what I’ve written. I don’t think they’re atoning for that… it would take way more introspection and sense of guilt than many Plods seem to possess.

Look how long it took for them to acknowledge the crap they pulled when trying to infiltrate organisations like Greenpeace (Special Branch officers), or the numerous inappropriate relationships that officers have pursued with vulnerable women over the years.

Good for him. It's a US thing, about US history, US context.

It's utterly absurd that people in the UK are copying it.

“Whether it be through adulterating the uniform with pins and tabs and badges or whatever, and having all manner of florid social media accounts. These are all things which I think leave the public cold, and I just personally don't think they have a place in policing,” he said.