If you don't like the idea of hiving off sex/gender issues into a separate board...

[YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire]

I have suggested to MNHQ that instead of moving sex/gender talk to its own forum they could either:

• implement a feature allowing people to block all threads containing a particular word or phrase (eg "trans");
• have a tick box that you can tick when creating a thread on FWR to note if it's intended to focus on transgender ideology's impact on feminism.

What do people think? My view is that this would allow the people who really want to avoid sex/gender issues to filter most of it out whilst leaving us free to largely continue as we are.

If you would support this compromise then please comment on the thread on site stuff: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4270115-Hide-threads-containing-a-particular-word-or-phrase?msgid=108194142 MNHQ have said "We'll keep an eye on this thread too to see what the general consensus is."

@YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire

No. You have a choice to click on a thread, or not. Leave it alone.

Well that was always my position too but it seems like MNHQ are considering a separate board. This is the best compromise I can come up with 🤷‍♀️

So tired of feminists being expected to 'compromise' to make everyone else feel better.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

No. You have a choice to click on a thread, or not. Leave it alone.

Agreed.

I don’t really know how this will work. There is a Jess Phillips piece on the BBC today about her having HPV when younger which I was going to share on mumsnet, maybe on feminist chat as she was talking about the shame aspect of it.
If someone else commenting on it wanted to draw attention to the wording “women and people with cervixes” would that mean my thread would get zapped if it wasn’t on the correct board?

Agreed, you can't seperate sex and gender from discussing women's rights. Agree with @drwitch, a women's campaigns and court cases perhaps.

I don't want to read a post in feminism where its obvious what the OP is getting at but they're having to police their own language in case it derails into a "you can't post that HERE!" pile-on. And other posters also having to follow suit, everyone tippytoeing round each other, bollocks to that!

If you don't want to read something, put your big pants on and scroll past or hide it. If people want to carry on in their bubbles and ignore the biggest threat to the rights and protections of women and girls today that's their choice; but I don't see why MN should be having to hold their hands going "there there. We'll do all the work for you and make those nasty feminists you don't agree with go away"

Since apparently people are not able to be grown ups and just hide or ignore threads they don't like, yes OP I think that's a much better solution.

I am very against hiding biological reality for women in a hived off, out of sight cupboard in case it offends people, on a site that is in the huge majority for and by women. Or pretending that women's rights can be separated from issues of sex, and it's somehow a nice, kind thing to do so. It's a ridiculous proposition.

Sex v gender is a feminist issue. Its place is on the feminist board imo.

There have also been threads on FWR which have been derailed by people trying to make it about trans people. A thread will start off as eg rape victims should have access to female medical examiner's and single sex spaces to recover. Then two or three posts in someone will post a "whatabout transwomen" where will they go post.? So immediately such a thread which started off as a feminist rights issue, is successfully derailed so that it can be hidden or sent to another board. The possibilities for malicious posting seem endless.

A word-sensitive thread block function sounds like a good idea across the whole site.

I don't understand why FWR has to have separate rules. Yes, some of the subjects discussed here may be upsetting for some MN users, but that's the same across many of the boards surely? Some posters are saying that they are interested in feminism but can't bear to look at the board because it's too distressing to see all the threads about trans issues, so those threads need to be safely locked away in their own enclave, out of public sight. How is that different from someone (for example) who is interested in Style and Beauty, loves fashion, enjoys make up etc but has alopecia and finds it upsetting to see all the threads about hair styles and products?

A broad-ranging site like this (and its broad range is inherent to its success as a community of - mostly - women) requires a degree of self-regulation from its users. As we're fond of saying, MN is not a hive mind. There are small communities within the larger one - dog lovers, knitters, runners, parents of teens/adults/children with SEN, and yes - women (again, mostly) with a keen interest in feminist discussion, analysis and activism. You find your tribe here, you don't barge into discussions on boards you don't like ('I'm terrified of dogs and they make me sneeze so stop going on about how good they are!' 'I rent my house and I'm not allowed to redecorate - can you please not discuss paint colours on Property&DIY?') or come along and demand that an existing tribe is broken up or censored to accommodate your sensitivities (and if you can't find your tribe, you move on to look for it in another online community.) That's why it seems crazy to me that external monitors are allowed to dictate what's discussed here, and why this latest idea to split the FWR board seems bonkers.

So (sorry for rant) an opt-out word search function seems like a good idea. But if the change does go ahead, I suspect I'll keep on posting on the Sex & Gender board, regardless (if that's what it's going to be called) and avoid the fun feminism, because I don't think that's really my tribe. I guess it'll be the ultimate poll to see if us mean old GC wimmin really are a 'vocal minority'. (If the trend from 2018 has continued, you'd imagine we aren't. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3302495-This-is-how-traffic-to-the-feminism-board-has-increased)

No. Feminism needs to be allowed to define the word woman. Anything else is not feminism. It is something else masquerading.

A word-sensitive thread block function sounds like a good idea across the whole site

That would really make it hard when something that needs urgent attention and would benefit people to see it in.chat or aibu gets blocked. With the fwr many people don't have alot of idea whats going on. When trying to warn parents of potential safe guarding issues of say their children sleeping In mixed sex dorms with staff present who may not be biologically the same sex that you requested when signing your disabled child who needs intimate care up for a camp/school trip etc , well they'd just never know would they. Especially if they have blocked FWR.

All this stuff is "ok" until it affects them personally or until it's really broken down.onto basic terms like it is In aibu amd the penny drops as to what we have been on about.

It really could end up causing alot of valuable info to be missed on the basis people avoid feminist chat. Take the title feminist out of stuff ajd you find alot of people actually agree with much of the stuff. The title seems to get backs up for some.reason

I just don't understand how you can split any women's rights issues off from biology. Can someone give me a women's discussion where biology is irrelevant because I can think of one.

Since when did mumsnet need to have a safe space to discuss and debate issues because some women (and men) are too triggered/annoyed etc by the threads on sex and gender identity issues? Just scroll on down or hide the threads.

FWR is female focused so, of course, we should be able to talk about what concerns us and right now it's how trans ideology is impacting on our lives. It's a huge subject and concern.

Shunting off FWR topics into niche areas (and let's be honest here, it's one topic) is an attempt to destabilise and fragment our voices. It's very concerning that MN would even consider this as it's the last mainstream website with women's issues can be discussed.

@MummBraTheEverLeaking

Agreed, you can't seperate sex and gender from discussing women's rights. Agree with *@drwitch*, a women's campaigns and court cases perhaps.

I don't want to read a post in feminism where its obvious what the OP is getting at but they're having to police their own language in case it derails into a "you can't post that HERE!" pile-on. And other posters also having to follow suit, everyone tippytoeing round each other, bollocks to that!

If you don't want to read something, put your big pants on and scroll past or hide it. If people want to carry on in their bubbles and ignore the biggest threat to the rights and protections of women and girls today that's their choice; but I don't see why MN should be having to hold their hands going "there there. We'll do all the work for you and make those nasty feminists you don't agree with go away"

This sums up my feelings on the matter perfectly.

It seems that splitting off the board causes more problems than it solves. I came to Feminist Chat via AIBU and can honestly say it has changed my life. I feel so much stronger from being here. So please don't make it harder to find: don't fragment our voices as WarOnWoman said.
And: also voiced many times: if you don't like a topic, scroll on!
As been said more eloquently by others: why are we the ones that have to move?

I too came to Feminist Chat from AIBU and I’m so glad - it has been so enlightening and yes, life changing for me too.
I cannot understand how people can’t simply avoid what they don’t want to read. I often click on threads, scan through, decide it’s not for me. No fuss, no tantrums. It’s silencing and controlling freedom of discussion and any attempts to hide or segregate threads which mention gender and sex issues are bound to fall foul of the rules.

The tick box idea wouldn't work in practice. OPs would forget, or a thread primarily about some aspects of women's rights may get a post or two relating to trans or some other adjacent matter of gender.

Block words... well, I suppose some people might find them useful, in general not just FWR. I find it pretty easy to tell from the title or the first few lines of an OP if it's a thread I want to bother with.

@ArabellaScott

I just don't see how we can actually discuss feminism without 'sex' and 'gender' being part of it. It's the absolute crux of feminism - how 'gender' impacts on 'sex'.

I totally agree.

The tick box idea wouldn't work in practice. OPs would forget, or a thread primarily about some aspects of women's rights may get a post or two relating to trans or some other adjacent matter of gender.

I think it could work if MN have the power to tick it for you if you forgot. It's obviously another thing that the mods would have to do but I don't see that this would be any more work than moving threads to the proposed sex/gender topic that are accidentally posted on the main board.

It's possible that a thread could derail into trans issues (especially for the odd post here and there) but this would mean that most threads could be filtered for those who want them and then they can individually hide any other threads they want. It's not intended to be a guarantee that you'll never see anything trans-related, but more a way to avoid a big wall of threads focussed on sex/gender for those who don't want to see that kind of thing.

MNHQ could keep "Feminist Chat" and create a separate "Intersectional liberal feminism chat" for gender ideologists.

Second thoughts they could keep "feminist chat" and add a "gender ideology" area.

From what I have seen on all the threads about this, there already is. Consensus to leve FWR/ feminism chat as it is . There are so few in opposition as to be negligible. Many women have joined this board after being on other boards and appreciate what we have ie the means to discuss what concerns us. No need to change it at all.

Leave it alone. Why shouldn't women choose what they want to post on the board, the fact there are so many trans threads are because the ideology is impacting on our rights and our daughters. If people don't like what women talk about then they don't have to read, or start a thread of your own.

@YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire

No. You have a choice to click on a thread, or not. Leave it alone.

Well that was always my position too but it seems like MNHQ are considering a separate board. This is the best compromise I can come up with 🤷‍♀️

Whatever is done will still be monitored and complained about. A separate section will be targeted with ploppers asking why such a section is allowed, haven’t you got better things to talk about? Etc and an extra hide function would be ignored just as the ignore function (or ability) would not be used.

Posters who start threads stating “why aren’t you bigots talking about blah” never start threads and rarely contribute to threads started by others.

@Thecatonthemat

From what I have seen on all the threads about this, there already is. Consensus to leve FWR/ feminism chat as it is . There are so few in opposition as to be negligible. Many women have joined this board after being on other boards and appreciate what we have ie the means to discuss what concerns us. No need to change it at all.

Agreed. I came to Mumsnet via the somewhat bizarre Am I Being Unreasonable threads, learned to take no shit on the relationships board and stayed for feminism chat.

How about leaving this board as it is and having a sub-board for those who want to have a chat section free from the things we want to talk about.

That's how it works elsewhere on MN - if enough people want a new section then it's made for them.

What doesn't usually happen is that one of the most popular and well-used sections on the website has its regulars silenced to accommodate a different group's wants. That's nuts.

I think it could work if MN have the power to tick it for you if you forgot. It's obviously another thing that the mods would have to do but I don't see that this would be any more work than moving threads to the proposed sex/gender topic that are accidentally posted on the main board.

But then you'll still get the complaints about how we aren't centering men in talk about wifework or miscarriages and the LACK of talk about trans individuals will turn into a trigger for the report-happy brigade.