Induction

[RaeRaeMama]

Why is nobody talking about how medicalised the NHS has made birth?

I didn't know the shit storm I was walking into when I got pregnant with my first. I think a lot of the treatment of women is absolutely disgusting and I cannot understand why we are all letting it continue.

I think I found the conditions in the post-natal ward and care far more upsetting than needing to be induced (which in itself didn't go particularly well, but we all came out the other side healthily so it's hard to complain too much when that is the ultimate purpose).

I would actively support work, campaigning etc to improve the conditions for those who have to stay on post-natal as the whole setup is so counterintuitive to what you'd think would be helpful, but I can't get het up about advances in medicine being used to the to improve outcomes, even having been through a, it could be argued, unnecessary intervention. But we don't get to see the alternative ending, so we just don't know. I took the medical advice at face value as much as it conflicted with what I had wanted, and it worked out. If I hadn't, it might not.

It's all so sort of descended into different and often very strong views and then it gets fighty.

Part of the problem is lack of resources/ interest in NHS meaning things are conveyer belt etc.

I also feel, and this may not go down well. But anyway. Years ago my mum said that there's been a sort of almost competitiveness or something with midwifes not wanting to have women taken out of their area iyswim. That they want to do their thing and see docs getting involved as undermining or something.

From my own experience this felt bang on.

What I would like to see.

An end to the really often unpleasant arguments between VB proponents and others. Ditto bf.

I want.

Full information warts and all on all the options, risks and benefits. Not this sort of one way street we get (I had babies a decade ago).

The realities, benefits and risks around vb.
The realities, benefits and risks around sections.
Proper info about induction, assisted deliveries etc.
All with stats.

BF needs to be more support post natally to help women actually do it. Rather than hammering it when you're pregnant and then giving no help and leaving a lot of women guilty.

On induction. In other countries I think they let you go longer.

I went 42+2 and got told it was the thing to do, the placenta was probably failing, baby wouldn't get enough oxygen etc.

It was a total nightmare.

I donated my placenta/ cord for stem cells etc and they said ooh lovely red blood very healthy thank you! I mean maybe they say that to everyone but it's a weird thank you if it's not true!

I want the midwifery and medical side to work together in the best interrsts of the the woman.

I want an end to the just get on with it don't make a fuss attitude that it seems from here and own experience a fair few midwives have.

I agree that a named midwife, continuity of carer would be a major improvement for mothers.

@Hoping4second

Exactly

Of course our children are important, but a woman's experience when she gives birth MATTERS

I also think people do forget birth is experienced by a woman but also her baby

Why are we always so quick to jump to medicalised intervention that can actually cause more harm then good?

The stories I've heard make my blood run cold and I can't understand why everyone isn't trying to do more. I hate that women are being treated like this whilst we are doing one of the most important jobs in the world

@Bordois

That is very wrong.

Why was your baby in distress?
As mentioned, the cord was wrapped around his neck.

Did you have an infection following you waters breaking
No, because they induced me a day and a half after my waters broke to avoid this.

or was it because of the drugs used to induce you which are known to cause distress to the baby?
No. Let me say again THE CORD WAS WRAPPED AROUND HIS NECK WHICH MEANT THAT HE COULDN'T BREATHE.

Medicalised births after often appropriate. Your posts seem very misguided.

@NiceGerbil I think that is very well said. I must admit the OP wound me up, but what you say is right and this should not be a battle. If it is any reassurance I think most places don’t advise that pregnancy goes on longer than that www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/oct/28/post-term-pregnancy-research-cancelled-babies-die-sweden - although I absolutely think that too should be the choice of the individual woman, as it is her body. I have to say I am different, I was deluged with statistics about VBAC after my second birth and it was too much. But I can imagine a lot of more statistically minded women would benefit from it. So I agree with you. As long as there is a kind, friendly, evidence-based soul around to guide simpletons like me!

@RaeRaeMama I do understand that there can sometimes be pressure from medical staff over various issues. I too was pressured by one particular midwife during part of my labour (I was induced - she tried to tell me I wasn’t allowed the hormone drip without an epidural and I didn’t want an epidural). And I do believe that it’s wrong that women feel pressured. But I do also believe that women need to research and know their options and stand up for themselves - or ensure they have a birthing partner that will if they can’t 🤷🏻‍♀️

I want women's pain to be taken seriously and treated.

I want women who are keen to give birth at home/ birthing centre/ water etc etc to have those options if suitable.
And women who want a section the same.
And those in between.

Post natally I want bounty off the wards and this partners 24/ 7 is a terrible idea.

I want the most important thing to be a delivery that is as in line as possible with what the woman wants. To minimise trauma and guilt if things don't go as expected.

Decent follow up on health, injuries, bf support, all that. Fast help for women with trauma around birth.

And somehow change this idea in society that it's a nothing. Just get on with it. Of course you must be over the moon! Oh and you're invisible now there's a baby.

@Heyha

I understand what you're saying.

Have you looked up cascade of intervention?

The issue is that by interfering when it ISN'T necessary (which is what is happening for a lot of women) is causing more harm

That is, more harm to women, more harm to their children

I'm in an area that was praised for embracing continuity of carer and that was recently downgraded on CQC (I think?) after some staff whistleblowing on understaffing and safety. It's a fab idea but it seems it's not been as resourced as it needed to be (what a surprise). I have one midwife and hospital for routine stuff, another for scans etc, and I'll have to give birth in a third. The general standards in the scan hospital have plummeted since I was there regularly two years ago before continuity of care, every time I've been there, in every letter, there has been something that has really raised my eyebrows. I'm enjoying seeing the same midwife for the other appointments but she is quite obviously overworked, much more noticeably than my last pregnancy. I'm not actually clear about how continuity of care will look when I'm giving birth as it just seems logistically impossible that she could do all her community work and be on standby for when I decide to pop!

@YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire

Why was your baby in distress? As mentioned, the cord was wrapped around his neck.

Did you have an infection following you waters breaking
No, because they induced me a day and a half after my waters broke to avoid this.

or was it because of the drugs used to induce you which are known to cause distress to the baby?
No. Let me say again THE CORD WAS WRAPPED AROUND HIS NECK WHICH MEANT THAT HE COULDN'T BREATHE.

Medicalised births after often appropriate. Your posts seem very misguided.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 glad you got the medical help that you needed to get your little one here safely @YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire 😊

I had a horrific experience of induction. It was incredibly distressing. I don't resent that I was induced, if it really was reducing the risk for me and my baby, but I resent the poor information I received beforehand, and the poor care I received i.e. no pain relief when I needed it, and labouring on my own (husband not allowed with me on the ward, even though I was in a private room).

My baby eventually arrived safely, but it didn't go well and required further intervention, and it cast a long shadow over my mental health post partum.

I haven't read the thread and am only going to post once and not respond because it's painful.
I did a hypnobirth course whilst pregnant and was advised that you didn't have to get an induction if your waters broke. The practitioner was very anti medicalisation.
Anyway, I left it for 48 hours against medical advice as they wanted to do an induction. My son got an infection. We're now going through the process of getting him diagnosed with cerebral palsy.

I really wish people hadn't eroded my confidence in the medical professionals who deal with maternity. It's a high price my baby paid.

'. I have to say I am different, I was deluged with statistics about VBAC after my second birth and it was too much'

Yes you're right- it would need to be info accessible to all. Obviously there are women with English as a second language etc. I was speaking too much from my point of view.

Agree re VBAC I had to have a session with a midwife where she tried to persuade me.

Sadly I had read up on it.

She said the risk for second baby was a bit lower for VB Vs CS.

I said yes but it's the same as the risk for first VB baby isn't it. Which makes sense.

She said there is a risk with second CS of scar rupturing. I said yes. What are the risks of injury due to eg instrumental birth though.

It just felt like she was pushing me in one direction rather than being neutral and letting me decide.

I've never liked having incomplete info, or being told what to do

Mousey much strength to you and your son

@KM38

Yes there does need to be a degree of responsibility with the women themselves. But I feel like, particularly with first time mums, they trust that they will always be given the best advice and I don't think they always are. I don't see how they can when the care isn't individual

'Have you looked up cascade of intervention?'

This is MN feminism chat.

I would be surprised if many posters hadn't heard of it.

@NiceGerbil

Yes this

Mousey I am so sorry.

You must feel guilty- don't. You did what you thought best. There is no crystal ball with birth. Who knows what is right.

Thank you for your post and I wish you and your DS all the best xx

to be fair, I'm all for medicalised birth. my body is crap at giving birth, and I have no doubt that I and my babies would be dead without modern medicine.

What I do object to is the way women are treated when in labour. The most useful phrase I discovered is 'I don't consent to that'. I had plenty of medical professionals trying to do things to me that it was clear I was unhappy about, and they were quite happy to try to force me to accept them.

but explicitly stating that I didn't consent was like a magic spell.

@YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire

Apologies I must have misread your comment.

I'm not against induction, I just don't agree with it being used (and sometimes pushed) on women particularly when it isn't necessary. I feel so much for the women I know and the women I've spoken to, I just want them to have the best experience possible and I think it's wrong that there isn't more individual care.

I understand that there is most definitely a place for intervention and it is a blessing when it is used appropriately. But for a lot of women I don't think it is being used appropriately at the moment.

Following on from my post upthread, my 9-year-old "baby" just picked up that I'm a bit upset (thinking about the induction) and asked if I'm ok and gave me a hug. I really am grateful that he's safe and well, but it did fuck me up quite a bit afterwards, and there was really no need for it to be so traumatic. Yes to cascade of intervention.

to mousey. I'm so sorry.

@BlueBrush

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. You deserved more support and information. Was your DH not allowed in the room because of Covid?

A lot of these experiences are similar to mine - starting with induction which then led to forceps. Also agree with a pp who said that wasn't the worst of it - the postnatal "care" was grim.

I think first time you are more trusting that things are done because they are in your best interest.

Second time round I was able to be much more assertive, had a home birth that was like a completely different experience.