Misgendering - a more nuanced definition is needed?

[cheeseismydownfall]

I am really struggling with the concept of misgendering, following the blanket statement made by one of the interviewees on R4 this morning that "misgendering is wrong".

How can this be? If we accept that the Equalities Act allows for single sex provisions, and even to the extend of excluding those people who hold a GRC in certain circumstances, it follows that there may be occasions when 'misgendering' is required in order to correctly apply the law.

Take a few scenarios:

1. A transwoman going for a quiet coffee and being pointedly and repeatedly referred to using male pronouns by a member of staff. Transwoman politely requests the use of female pronouns instead. Member of staff laughs and continues to refer to the transwoman as male.

1. A transwoman using the female toilets in a workplace, despite the availability of unisex facilities and a multicultural diverse environment in which some women have previously stated that they are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of a male-bodied person entering the female-only space.

1. Requesting assistance with a fitting for a first bra for a young teenage girl, and discovering that this service is being provided by a transwoman.

No-one but a complete dick would think the first scenario is OK. Bullying and humiliating someone like this would be a despicable act, and (in my mind) this is what #bekind was supposed to be about - and would have been better coined as #don'tbeanarse

But what about scenarios 2 and 3, where the women and girls involved have their own feelings which are also valid? How can it be wrong for a woman to express her discomfort in these circumstances?

I guess I am frustrated because whenever the term 'misgendering' is used, I think people assume that the context is something akin to the first scenario, and that women are just being mean. I think there needs to be some clearer distinction made around deliberate, unnecessary 'misgendering' and a woman's right to query if her sex-based rights are being compromised. A single term is not adequate, surely?

Misgendering someone could fall under harassment.

@DelilahDingleberry

Misgendering someone could fall under harassment.

Freedom of speech law protects free expression, and in many cases it similarly protects an individual from being required to utter or otherwise express a thought with which they disagree. Compelled speech is a form of abuse.

There's a large fallacy that its illegal for a man to go into a women's changing room but it's not. However, sexual harassment/assault is illegal. So a man could go into a female changing room and perform a 'nefarious' act and he wouldn't be arrested for going into the women's changing room. Furthermore, the man wouldn't be excused for what he did because he filled in a form to get a GCR.
It is so much more likely for a trans person to be assaulted in a bathroom or changing room than any cis man or woman particularly trans women, particularly trans women of colour.

Cis. Bleugh.

Maybe calling women cis should also be classed as harassment, it certainly annoys the hell out of me.

Correctly if I'm wrong but misgendering is now considered a form of "harassment" under law. Whilst there are no specific laws concerning "misgendering", there are laws about harassment, which is deliberately somewhat vague as "harassment" has to respond to societal change.
So check harassment laws.

@GNCQ I think the harassment connection is mostly stemming from the judgement of Forstater's appeal. In which the judge explicitly said one cannot "have license to misgender with impunity". So that is being taken as conflation with "harassment".

Technically, you could form a civil case based on mis gendering someone under harassment laws, it would probably have to be extreme levels of mis gendering as though it were bullying. I doubt anyone would make a case based around any of the OP's examples. As well as this, for anyone to go to those efforts seams unlikely.
In conclusion, technically, its possible; in reality its very unlikely.

While I would not deliberately offend trans people who might be working in the same office as me etc, I also have the right not to be forced to use certain words. If I were in this situation I would have to use the person's name only, and not use pronouns at all.

That's good for you, I suppose, however nobody would take you to court over that even if you intentionally used the incorrect pronouns.

It is so much more likely for a trans person to be assaulted in a bathroom or changing room than any cis man or woman particularly trans women, particularly trans women of colour.

Receipts?

This is a free speech issue.

People don't understand that if you have free speech laws that means that people can say things that certain groups in society find offensive.

www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/23/trans-people-four-times-likely-face-violent-crime-cis

Does that survey say transmen have 40% more experience of violence than transwomen? (I’m back calculating from the total).
The article and survey are American, and I think the Americans had that evil bloke that beat up a homeless, mentally ill person with a beard who used the women’s toilet?

Yes it does, so I was wrong partially but my point still stands

It would be good if you had any relevant statistics to the UK. In the UK we know every day a school girl is raped at school so we think having safe loos, changing rooms etc are important. Trans people are also victims of crime, and crimes motivated by transphobia are noted and sentencing carries a premium. Much lower rates than the US.

UK and US are culturally similar so I doubt there is much difference.
Can you provide sources for anything you just said? Furthermore, are the girls being raped by trans students sharing the same changing rooms? No, there not.

In the in uk bug there are more transwomen murderers than have been murdered.

This one evidences some of the rape and sexual assaults www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34138287.amp

No of course, the rapes are by male people. That’s why women in the UK to have spaces free of male people.

FYI, rape in the UK is defined to be penetration by a penis. There are other sexual offences that it is possible for a female to commit.

@BugWoman

UK and US are culturally similar so I doubt there is much difference. Can you provide sources for anything you just said? Furthermore, are the girls being raped by trans students sharing the same changing rooms? No, there not.

Homicide rates in the USA are 18 times higher than in the UK. It is a country with fundamentally different social structure, religion, and crime patterns. You can't just take information about one place and apply it to somewhere else entirely.